It
is tough to be kind to the Ball Administration. They cause members of the
public to label them “lame” and “dumb”. On what basis should they think
differently?
The
Liberals ought to have immediately understood the rationale for Nalcor’s
$900,000 parting gift to VP and CFO Derrick Sturge and stopped the move. Even a
modicum of intelligence would have helped them see through his “without cause”
departure, complete — the Uncle Gnarley Blog has learned — with
“Confidentiality Agreement” attached. The Agreement was key to the whole
arrangement. It would provide the assurance Nalcor needed that Sturge’s lips
would remain zippered about Executive complicity in Nalcor’s $12.7 billion
debacle.
The
Liberals failed to see (or didn’t want to) that the decision served only
Nalcor’s interest and conflicted with the public interest.
After
four years in Cabinet, Siobhan Coady is still slavishly repeating Nalcor’s
scripts. She possesses neither a sense of the ethical standards expected of
Crown Corporations, the judgement (ie, common sense) expected of a Minister,
nor an appreciation for the level of duplicity and deception which saw Muskrat
Sanction foisted on an uninformed public.
In
reply to a question from MHA Paul Lane in the House of Assembly on November 20th
Coady addressed the severance issue:
MS. COADY: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I’m
going to stick to the facts of the matter in this case. There is no legal case
for cause I understand, Mr. Speaker. No legal case for cause therefore the
individual under discussion has a contract and he has paid out a long-standing
contract that pre-existing contract that goes back to the 2000s, Mr. Speaker.
He’s been paid out according to that contract.
Coady
ought to know that Sturge’s contract did not preclude the Board or the CEO from
dismissing him “with cause”. How dumb would that be! Nalcor simply chose
impunity for Sturge regardless of his laxity in the Muskrat Falls project. It
was a decision consciously and deliberately taken.
Of
course, if the Minister was capable, she would have seen through the
Confidentiality Agreement. Sturge’s signature was far more important than any
consideration of the financial dark matter that his “not in the loop” behaviour
left behind.
For
Nalcor, better that Sturge was happy than to sue them for the gain for which he
might have been justifiably deprived. Such an approach might have caused him to
get lawyered up and later to spill the beans in front of a Judge about the
pre-sanction period and afterwards, when an incredible amount of chicanery
occurred around Muskrat.
Related:
Paul Davis Kept Lid on Release of Cost Overruns Prior to 2015 General Election
$900,000 to Sturge: Nalcor Board an Echo of the Last One
Who
remembers the 2% probability
of success given the project by Nalcor consultant Westney? Was Sturge aware
that Validation Estimating’s review of the Project estimates was cancelled
mid-Report? As CFO, did Sturge inquire about allocations for Contingency? Risk
assessment was one of his primary responsibilities.
Did he ask for or receive the Independent
Project Review given to Ed Martin by Dick Westney, which highlighted the need
for a significant Contingency?
Where was Mr. Sturge and why didn’t he
subdue Paul Harrington rather than watch his histrionics as Nalcor officials
kept EY away from performing a complete audit of the Project? Was Richard Noble
of EY not merely doing his job when he complained in an email, in 2015, to his
associates and to the Oversight Committee: “In my 17 years’ experience of
conducting project reviews and audits, it is highly unusual when assessing cost
and schedule management that you would be constrained from examining the
processes/basis of plans and estimates to start with. These underpin cost and
schedule performance and its management. Everyone knows that.”
Does not the EY affair — alone — speak to
why Sturge’s severance should have been denied?
Siobhan Coady closed her ears to those
serious issues.
Who is she protecting?
A
retiring public servant, even one with a dubious attachment to the nearly $1
million severance, might be inspired to tell all in a Court of Law in support
of his claim. He may entangle other Nalcor executives and cause them to come
clean about the whole tawdry story around Muskrat. A Supreme Court Judge would
have no hesitation reminding them that perjury is paid with ‘hard time’.
Perhaps some of them watched Ambassador Sondland in front of the Senate
Committee testifying to Trump’s duplicity on Ukraine, and they may have noted
that he eschewed partisanship, choosing the truth rather than the gaol.
Undoubtedly, there are employees at Nalcor below the rank of Executive whose
tongues could be loosened under the same threat.
As
it stands, Nalcor has their “Confidentiality Agreement” from Mr. Stuge and he
has the $900,000.
The
public has been screwed again. Perhaps someone of Siobhan’s minor heft has no
ulterior motive; the Minister is just being herself.
Among
this “lame” and “dumb” Government, one thing is certain: this Minister won’t be
the one who figures out what just happened.
I was never impressed by Sioibahn Coady when she was in Federal politics, and I am less so now. Nor am I impressed by the Liberal party, Federal or Provincial. I am glad that they don't run municipal elections with a Liberal banner.
The Liberal's from day one has merely furthered/solidified Danny's arrogant, self-centred Muskrat Falls deception.
The Ball/Coady relationship is as cult-like as that between Williams/Dunderdale.
The more things change…..
Interesting read!
As per past history, another less than stellar performance by Siobhan Coady.
Apparently there is a Confidentiality Agreement as a part of Sturge's dismissal.
What have we learned even after spending $30 Million Dollars on the Muskrat Falls Inquiry?
NALCOR is still firmly in full control over the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the tail is STILL wagging the dog!
For anyone interested in a piece of factual information, here is article 10 from the Sturge employment contract, not a SC doing (however, thats not saying she is dealing with this competently):
[start]
CONFIDENTIALITY
10. (a)"Confidential Information" means any trade secrets or other information however communicated, disclosed to the Executive or obtained by the Executive through observation or examination of Nalcor's corporate policies and procedures or materials related to its business or operations which derives economic value from not being generally known to or readily ascertainable by other persons who can obtain value from its disclosure or use, or any of the foregoing as they relate to:
i. Hydro, or a company considered to be a subsidiary of Hydro in accordance with Section 13 of the Hydro Corporation Act, 2007;
ii. Nalcor Energy , or a company considered to be a subsidiary of Nalcor Energy in accordance with Section 13 of the Energy Corporation Act;
iii. Twin Falls Power Corporation Limited; or
iv. Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation Limited
v. (collectively referred to as "Nalcor Group").
(b)The Executive acknowledges that irreparable injury or damage will result to Nalcor Group upon the disclosure of Confidential Information to third parties or utilization of same for any purpose other than as contemplated by this Agreement.
(c) The Executive will not, without the prior written consent of the Nalcor Group, as applicable, disclose any Confidential Information to any third party and will not use the Confidential Information except pursuant to and in the course of the Executive's association with Nalcor for the benefit of Nalcor, provided, however, that the Executive shall have no liability to Nalcor for any disclosure of any Confidential Information in the Executive can establish that such Confidential Information:
i. publically known, available or published, without breach of this Agreement by the Executive, or
ii. has become known lawfully by or has become lawfully known to the Executive prior to Nalcor's disclosure of such information to the Executive by the Nalcor Group, as applicable, as evidenced by; written documents received by the Executive prior to such disclosure to the Executive, or
iii. has been rightfully and lawfully received by the Executive from third parties, or
iv. has been independently developed without reference to or use of the Confidential Information, or
v. has been disclosed by or allowed for by law.
(d)The Executive agrees that all restrictions and covenants contained in this Clause are reasonable and valid and all defences to the strict enforcement thereof by the Nalcor Group which are founded upon reasonableness or validity of the restrictions and covenants are hereby waived by the Executive.
[end]
The confidentially clause dates to pre-Nalcor days.
So, guess that clause applies to the NL government, its shareholders, the people, and God himself.
Anony @ 12:52:
Actually it does – if the Government wants to change the provisions and don't have Sturge's agreement – their option is they pay the termination penalties or they don't change the terms.
Pretty simple contract law principle – no 1 party to an agreement (even government) can unilaterally change a contract.
Another concept you need to understand – government is the only shareholder to Nalcor – the electorate and public are not shareholders of Nalcor (though we often want to think ourselves and we are told the same by government). There are too many degrees of separation between government and Nalcor to allow us the public to be a shareholder of Nalcor (or another ABC for that matter).
Maybe if we want to be a shareholder, the first step would be to take accountability for electing those that direct Nalcor – and take responsibility for our elected government.
How are we accountable or responsible for electing those that direct Nalcor? If we vote for the lesser of the evils, we are just voting for evil. If we don't vote, then we are blamed for neglecting our civic responsibilities and told we get what we deserve.
If "None of the Above" was an option on the ballot, then then the point would be valid. I'd also want it to have teeth: If None of the Above won an election, all candidates would be disqualified and a new election held.
@12:59 This is a one sided NDA – Sturge isn't receiving any benefit from a gag clause and cancelling it does him no harm. If the government wants to force Nalcor to release him from the NDA, then he is free to talk.
If this was a mutual NDA where Nalcor and Sturge were to protect each others secrets, then it would require his consent to cancel. I see no reference to Nalcor protecting Sturge.
Anony @ 13:13:
You are 100% correct – we are damned if we do and damned if we don't….
But, it is the electoral system we have, and we the public are responsible for it…
Anony @ 13:27:
Article 10 on it solo interpretation would appear as a 1 sided NDA – but look at the other clauses of his employment contract. Sturge gets benefits for this 'gag order'. Main point being, is that neither government, Nalcor nor Sturge can waive this (or any other clause) unilaterally – you are wrong there….
His agreement is available online – it looks on its face to be pretty normal for any Exec….
If Sturge wasn't in the loop regarding the one main thing he was responsible for, why would anyone believe he would be in the loop regarding any confidential information ?
The mafia had and has confidentiality agreements, perhaps enforced differently, but it did not save John Gotti from Sammy the bull, did it?
MHA Paul Lane just posted this to his FB page. If this is in fact true obviously we are about to see some changes at NALCOR?
By the look of it we will be paying all of their severance packages as well!
Surreal!
Paul Lane Post
"It has become painfully apparent that Govt has no intention in holding any of those individuals occupying the executive suites in Nalcor accountable for their role in Muskrat Falls.
.
Apparently, their contracts are so iron clad that regardless of any degree of mismanagement, negligence and/or incompetence, they can simply walk away (without cause) with huge payouts.
.
As difficult as this may be to swallow, apparently the "not legally viable to challenge in court" excuse will be the standard response from the Minister as we will no doubt see a purging of Nalcor and watch these individuals laugh all the way to the bank.
.
So with that said, at least some of these individuals will have to replaced and when they are, their successors will need employment contracts also. These new contracts simply cannot mirror what exists today. There MUST be mechanisms contained within them to hold individuals in these high paying positions ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. This should not just apply to Nalcor, but to the new Oil & Gas Corporation and ALL Govt Agencies, Boards and Commissions, including the Nfld Liquor Corporation where they are currently looking for a new CEO.
.
I therefore encourage everyone to email the Premier, the Minister of Natural Resources and the Minister of Finance and DEMAND changes to these Executive Employment Contracts as individuals are replaced and new persons moved into these roles. This CANNOT be allowed to happen again!
.
Email: DwightBall@gov.nl.ca
SiobhanCoady@gov.nl.ca
TomOsborne@gov.nl.ca
.
PLEASE SHARE! PLEASE SHARE! PLEASE SHARE!"
I am impressed. Unfortunately, I am also shocked – that is NOT what I'd expect to hear from a politician so maybe there is a glimmer of hope after all. It might also be an indication that only independent candidates can serve the common good since everyone else is tied down by their party. It is also surprising that the NDP isn't saying things like this since they have much to gain – either that, or the NDP Libs and Cons parties are all controlled by the same elite and form a three headed string puppet.
Anony @ 12:01:
I wouldn't hold out much hope for NL politicians based on this, PL is nothing more than an opportunist – maybe ask him about if he voted for MF in 2011.
He was a staunch supporter of MF until 2-3yrs ago – and had has more changes of opinion than most change their clothes……
Peng2
Interesting read to… https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/opinion/regional-perspectives/brian-jones-not-much-sympathy-for-whining-newfoundlanders-380918/
I wonder what Gilbert Bennett's deal is. Can that be found out.
Anony @ 14:36:
Maybe the information was released almost 4yrs ago? Check out Nalcor Atippa release PB-451-2016.
PENG2
That ATIPP request was very general. We have at least 10 people with large packages but no details are provided. Worst case, assume they will all receive 2 years pay+benefits.
As of the date of your request (June 3, 2016), the following Nalcor Energy/ Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Executive employees had employment contracts which contain terms and conditions of employment, including pre-negotiated severance terms ranging between 12-24 months of salary:
Bennett, Gilbert – Vice President, Lower Churchill Project
Dalley, Dawn – Vice President, Regulatory Affairs & Customer Service
Gardiner, Terry – Vice President, Transmission Operations
Henderson, Rob – Vice President, Transition to Operations
Humphries, Paul – Vice President, System Planning
Keating, Jim – Vice President, Oil and Gas
Kieley, Chris – Vice President, Strategic Planning & Business Development
Macisaac, John – President, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro
Roberts, Michael – Vice President, Human Resources and Organizational Effectiveness
Sturge, Derrick – Vice President, Finance and CFO
Bennett, Gilbert J.EVP Power Development $353,753
Dalley, DawnVP Regulatory Affairs & Corporate Services $249,706
Gardiner, Terence J.VP Engineering $242,021
Henderson, Robert J.VP Transition to Operations $277,294
Keating, JimEVP Corporate Services & Offshore Development $337,787
Kieley, ChrisVP Stratrategic Planning & Business Development$302,711
MacIsaac, John EVP Power Supply $380,574
Roberts, Michael J.Chief HR Officer & VP, Safety,Health & Sustainability $266,079
Sturge, Derrick EVP Finance & CFO $365,271
Anony @ 12:36:
Yes general – but more than enough to give a sense of the liability. if you look at what Martin, Sturge and MacIsaac got – seems reasonable to assume more or less 3x annual salary is the net payout.
Sure, ask for each employment contract if you want – and then might or might not get. But I'd say since 10 persons at about $350k annual salary – I'd feel safe in saying total liability is about $12m….
PENG2
In Construction, the form of contract usually avoided was the "cost plus" version. Difficult to manage, difficult to determine value, tendency to added cost and lower productivity. When "managers" follow the open ended personal services contract method, what usually happens is the Boss comes down and says, "we don't need your services anymore, leave your desk and clean out your locker". Why is Stan reluctant to do the same for this "can't shoot straight" team?
Robert @ 16:16:
T/M construction contracts should be given out on a very limited basis – agreed they are very difficult to effectively manager, but they do have a place (just like extra work on an existing unit rate contract).
when it comes to the personal service contracts – this isnt a Nalcor invention – George Tilley comes to mind (and I have posted this before). He out and out resigned – and still got his severance. See the link:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/health-ceo-who-quit-still-getting-salary-benefits/article18143648/
Another link of interest for governance at ABCs, is the 2002 Hay report on governance at Eastern Health – governance in NL has been a long standing issue. See report at:
https://www.gov.nl.ca/publicat/operationalreview_health/op_review.PDF
Nalcor is everybody's whipping boy right now, but Nalcor is an effect of a broken system – and the electorate has to shoulder the blame for that because we didn't demand changes years ago.
PENG2
PENG2,
All it takes is for the prudent CEO to tell some of the overpaid manager contractors; "Your services are no longer required", and release them from contract.
Robert @ 20:20:
I am simply making the statement that issues in NL with respect to governance over ABCs goes back 20yrs – and predates the MF issue.
Sure, SM can go in and say 'services no longer required' – but that would also necessitate payout – and then the public bitches about that.
Its a catch 22 – maybe review the goof GT oversaw and try to tell the public that was less severe that MF? And GT still got paid, AND he resigned (not told 'services no longer needed' as you propose).
PENG2
PENG2,
What you have always said is the "we are the authors of our own demise" having elected the Government in power and not having challenged Nalcor/Government when MF was being pushed down our throats by not delving into the specifics ourselves. The vast majority of NLers elected our Government to act on our behalf. Are you saying that every piece of legislation should be scrutinized by the public, including legal jargon??. What tools does the public have to do this (MF in particular)when we are told that "it's a good deal" and we "needed the power". Were we to have held riots/held mass demonstrations? How were we to know that lies and deception were the order of the day??
We were screwed by those entrusted to look out for our best interests and it still continues (we think).
Even with rate mitigation, we will still have to pay for this
f–kup. We will still be borrowing $5M/day to pay the bills without MF.
It was people "in the know" like yourself who should've brought this to the forefront in the first place.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/muskrat-ge-transmission-1.5375246
Some interesting reading!
Apparently NALCOR is still playing the same "game" withholding reports from Liberty Consulting who have been retained by the PUB.
There is little doubt that NALCOR needs to be completely dismantled and some serious thought put into exactly how we are going to get out of this mess?
I have seen it actually suggested by some persons on here that Muskrat Falls should be completed and not operated?
At first I thought this was a radical idea?
However as time has dragged on you have to wonder when it id better to simply cut your losses!
It is beyond surreal!
I strongly suspect the inevitably damning indictment of the Nalcor monstrosity in Justice LeBlanc's soon-to-be-released report will be the beginning of the end of that tortured entity, which so deservedly needs to be put out of its abject misery ASAP.
Look for the administration of the corporate euthanasia to begin approximately one business day after Stan Marshall's departure.
Harikari one business day later, surely
oops, forgot, there ain't no honor at Nalcor
NS not too happy with the Link:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/maritime-link-to-cost-nova-scotia-power-customers-144m-1.5375621
Ratepayer pain all over; Finish Strong!
Agreed, NALCOR should be replaced. Some punishment for bad performance should happen, but it is almost Christmas bonus time.
Wonder if Justice Leblanc, burning midnight oil, will come to same conclusion.
Have no fear!
We will end paying in the long run once Emera makes a statement of claim against our very own NALCOR for failing to deliver on their contract!
Many have said that this project will surpass $15 Billion Dollars just for the initial cost.
By the look of it, we will!
"Electricity (to NS) is now expected June 1, 2020." LOL.
yes, Danny "L'il Trump" Williams was a real alchemist, he transmuted NL's offshore oil royalties into NS/Emera's gold
The CBC NS piece : "Maritime Link to cost NSs Power customers 144 million next year"
Read the comments ; they are not pleased , they paying for power they are not getting and Emera guaranteed 51 million a year.
They ask why this ever proceeded, and why not getting power from HQ who has surplus.
This boondoggle impacting NS customers and no end in sight………they blame the corporate elites and politicians.
Winston Adams
WA @ 10:04:
2-3yrs ago when i said complete to avoid default, I also suggested the unpopular option might be our best route – but power from HQ to satisfy the Emera obligation.
This didn't garner much discussion then, but might be an out – we owe Emera, or must compensate then for a financial loss.
PENG2
Who are the "elites " PENG2 who go us into this mess?
Winston
I am always mildly amused at the PENG2 standard answer?
When all else fails?
Blame it on the residents of the Province!
There is little doubt that PENG2 is a NALCOR shill!
He reminds me of Stan Marshall?
Somehow all of us mere mortals were expected to decipher all of the bull shit that was being heaped on all of us!
Starting with NALCOR up to and including the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, with a lacklustre media simply along for the ride.
How were we, the general population of the Province supposed to know exactly what NALCOR/Government were doing?
As we have plainly seen there were many high ranking individuals in both NALCOR and Government who never had a sweet clue what was going on?
Sure there were a number of people (Uncle Gnarley) included who were trying to unmask the "cloak" of secrecy and deceit that was occurring within NALCOR and possibly within our own Government!
I am sorry but trying to lay the blame game on the residents of the Province is truly starting to wear thin!
Yes we elected the Dunderdale Government in the middle of all this Muskrat Falls madness!
How you can consider this, as well as "polls" as being some kind of magical official stamp of approval by residents is laughable!
We were being misled by NALCOR and others from DAY 1!
By the look of the recent Liberty Report NALCOR is STILL trying to stonewall and mislead whomever dares to question their incompetence!
Please give us all a break!
WA / BFA:
The answer as to who caused MF is in the mirror. The elite are not so elite – none of the elite in NL show up on a top 200 wealthiest list in Canada, and have at best multi-millions of $ and in reality are not wealthy at all (again typical NL big fish in a little pond syndrome).
I would ask BFA, fine if we were lied to by Gov/Nalcor on MF – why then are we still electing members who voted for MF in 2011? People can lie to you if they like, but at the end of the day, the public was guliable and made the decision at 80% support to give the government repeated mandates for MF – and this inspite of a PUB report, inspite of people like UG, DV, RP and others here and elsewhere (including several MUN profs who made presentation and public letters against MF).
BFA: maybe you need to pay closer attention, I don't work for Nalcor like you allege.
Unfortunately, the public still hasn't learns a damn thing – still trying to blame someone else – thus we will repeat MF over and over again.
PENG2
Now too we have the NS report that if they adopted aggressive energy efficieny , and wind and heat pumps, and HQ infeed, they could go completely off coal by 2030, much sooner than expected or planned.
NS is already 4th best in Canada for EE, just behind BC, PQ and Ont, and NS light years ahead of NL since 2008, but can do much more in NS too, and to counter GHG emissions and climate change. Do i need to say where NL is standing of the ten provinces for EE?
PENG2 is quite on this too, seem to toe the line with Nfld POwer, Fortis, Nfld Hydro and Nalcor. And too he sees climate change as something to worry about , not before 50 years from now!He came down from 100 years to 50, so not much worry for him. Seems now tipping points may already be crossed or build of of GHS already will assure tipping points are crossed. Not a 50 year business as usual approach.
Antartic ice melt is in unreversable decline, not so much from warm air temperatures but by warmer water melting them from the bottom. First this was for West area , then for east region of Antarctic.
Other tipping points may be on the verge, and one interacts with the other to cause a cascade effect.
Greta learned about the science when 8 year old, and was 15 when she took a stand. Young Alfie is 77 and don't know the science, and Andy Wells, early 70's? And PENG2 age 45 or 50 or so?And "ethical oil" Ball(who uses a one gallon barrel) and Ches, not spring chicks, and knows nothing of climate change science.Nor Dennis Browne. They wanting to grow the winter peak HUMP bigger……11 of 24 schools now to be converted to inefficient baseboard heat. Contractors and enginners here shaking their heads at the madness but staying quiet.
Winston
Winston
Wisnton
Maybe "complete but not operate" will be our only option with the problems being experienced on transmission and at Soldiers Pond.It's a real joke,though not a very one,that 3 out of 3 synchronous condenser
won't work.For over 40 yrs I've worked at many heavy industrial projects in almost every province from NL to BC but never saw a motor or other piece of equipment that wouldn't turn or that vibrated so that it couldn't be operated.I wonder if the fact that these units were on the wharf in Bay Bulls for 18 months would have anything to do with the present problems. Highly likely.
Should read "not a very funny one"
BFA
so where are the lawsuits? the people in the street demanding action? the police investigating? so where are the other bottom-feeders howling that the Nalcor rabble be fired without golden parachutes?
you also support by doing nothing and nothing is all I see
WA @ 13:37:
You seem to continually misquote what I said and intended, even after several corrections.
My citing 100yrs or 50yrs was simply a statement indicating there were equally important catastrophes awaiting us – germ resistant bugs, political instability, and nuclear weapons were a couple other issues I quoted as being potentially as important as climate change. I NEVER 1x time said we had 100yrs or 50yrs before climate change was an issue.
Get your facts straight – or don't quote at all.
PENG2
Don't let your piss get hot PENG2. Yes you mentioned what you say are equally important catastrophes …….but after all you are only an anonymous engineer, so a job to impact your reputation. And I take Stephen Hawkings words more serious that climate change is more of a danger than nuclear war. There are many dangers ahead, as to the potential, it is like Nalcor ignoring risk factors for MFs.
Risk factors for climate emergency are many and severe, and growing worse daily.
I would have to fact check you on 100 and 50 years, as I tried to get you to admit is was more serious as to time, but you never budged past 50 years, unless I recall it wrong. If so I am wrong on you, but for now that is how I recall it. So, can't say I'm sorry that I misquoted you. You are sometimes vague in your reasoning, as today also on elites or no elites, Nflder all suckers or were misled by elites and their operatives?
Winston
WA @ 14:17:
Do the fact check – you will see that i said something to the effect:
'I only picked 100yrs as a number and I could just as easily could have picked 50yrs. Point being is that I think there are events that could have equally dire consequences (ie nuclear, political instability etc) in short time frame'.
To the NL elites, I never said there were none – just that what many think of an elite in NL is a pipsqueak in Canada's elite and doesn't even register globally – again I think as NLers we often over think our importance on a national and global scale.
That is why I said we ignore our own failing and often have a 'big fish in little pond' arrogance – until we get over this attitude (and accept our own blame) we will continually repeat boondoggles…..
Not sure why you thought I wasn't clear on this?
PENG2
I take your words on 100 and 50 years as what you said.Then mention the other events that could have equally dire consequences in short time frame.
Take nuclear war……. only a few countries are nuclear, and a few hot heads could trigger this , yes. Worse was perhaps in the 1960s and the Cuban crisis. Since we learn that nuclear war will trigger a nuclear winter and we all perish, so not that likely an event, as i assume might be Hawkings reasoning to be less serious a risk.
Climate change, as to emergency, many think is centuries away, so not much on the radar, when we know we may be crossing tipping point now, and feedback loops…..not in 50 to 100 years away as a danger , but a danger right now, and almost impossible to reign in, so extensive is fossil fuel use and infrasructure world wide. Minisplits can't solve it,nor wind generators , but may help a little and a thousand other things and action needed worldwide.
As an engineer you can read and understand the science if that is a priority for you. If not, then you can operate on not wanting to know, not on unable to know.
Meanwhile. a stray asteroid might take us out in 5 years, or a new type Spanish Flu. The science on climate change is not final, but pretty certain, and getting much worse as more research continued.
So as Greta say's " we must panic and then act. Panic should be brief and acting will take decades but must not wait. If you realize the seriousness of the climate issue, then you don't get to the panic mode. It should be like when the fire alarm goes off, but not to stay in that panic mode, no denial mode. Scientists are not alarmists, and conservative by nature, but they now admit it is an emergency. I accept that. You , I think do not. Do I misinterpret you, PENG2?
Winston
PENG2, to address your comment on local elites:so you admit there are local elites, but you are not saving who any of them are. I named several and no one said I was wrong.
In the USA they say elites are often those are corporate lawyers, or corporate lawyers acting for the elites. I suggest the same thing here.
Let me name another elite here: the current Fortis CEO. A guy making about 8 million a year. You want to say he is a pipsqueak in wealth compared to others across Canada? What of hois influence on Ball and government here? On carbon tax he got to meet with Ball and said go slow.Fortis a majot polluter, !5 million tons of CO2 a year if I recall correctly. And industry here mostly exempted and little going back to residents. So who is pulling the strings, not AJ?
Danny Williams maybe considers himself a big fish in a little pond, maybe all elites are big fish in a little pond to be a local elite. You say none of our elite show up on the top 200 wealth list, so what how many of Canada would show up on Forbes list? That is playing with numbersto say if not super wealth you have no influence.
You say the opposite: those responsible fro MFs, look in the mirror. So it is me, the antiMustrateers, you, and 80% of Nflders or you excuse the 20 % and the handful who was publically opposed? You are not even opposed in a public way, you are anonymous, so you are more responsible than some of us? Did you say people on your street didn't like you being negative on MFs, so you have a thin skin?
So yes, I consider you are not clear on your opinions. You are informed on technical flaws more than most but you hide in the shadows.Others stick their neck out, like engineer Young Bruneau. Elite ,Tommy , the Godfather, tried to paint as a communist, for being part of the MFCCC, like McCarthyism. Bruneau stood his ground, and Tommy , an elite looked silly. Is not Wade Locke an elite? Should be dismissed or demoted for his blunders and making money blowing and sucking, and the media thinks he is a guru of economics. A discredit to MUN's reputation, what little is left.
And you blame the uninformed and misinformed public, who too late see how they were misinformed, and some yet not seeing it.
They say the captain should go down with the ship , not the first in life boat. Ed Martin took to the life boat with with a vest full of money that would float him, arranged by the elites and the wonderful contracts that cover incompetence. And lots more of that to come with Sturge and others. How many knew of these fancy contracts? A few incidents before is small potatoes to the boondoggle.
What of Eric Durnford on sexual harassment going on for years, a major law firm with a branch here…..was he an elite? Any local coverage here, maybe I missed it. He gets a slap on the wrist to avoid the spotlight. A corporate lawyer. By your definition not on the 200 wealthy list he is not an elite?
So your descriptions are vague to me. All the fault of the little people, I hear you saying……but I have hearing problems, so speak a bit louder PENG2.
WA:
I have never in any way downplayed the issue of climate change – I have only said that there are potentially equally important issues. That is all.
As for elites, that is simply semantics (and u playing loose with my words again) – all I said is that noone in NL even makes the top 200 wealthiest people in Canada. Elite is relative, but if you read the cbc.ca/nl article today – it alleges our politics isn't ran by elites, and I am inclined to believe that. Our politics is guided by voter pandering and WE the public fall for it every 4yrs or so.
My challenge to anybody before they again deride my claim it is the public responsible for government – please explain to me why we still have 5 people and 1 exec assistant in 2011 who now sit as MHAs who supported MF in 2011? Even BFA above tried to extol the virtues of PL – and he is one of those voting for MF in 2011.
PENG2
PENG2
Somehow you can't get past the idea of the public somehow "endorsed" Muskrat Falls?
How can someone endorse something that is in fact a work of fiction from beginning to end.
People were led to believe one thing when something completely different was occurring.
If people were told factual information from the very beginning in turn we could make an educated decision.
I'm sorry but your "gullible" electorate is an insult to all of our collective intelligence!
Plain and simple we got conned from Day 1!
Just think about 3 of the main selling points of the ENTIRE Muskrat Falls project were:
1) The decommissioning of Holyrood.
2) Reliable power.
3) MF was the least cost option.
That is what the public were led to believe from DAY 1!
As we have seen the answers to all 3 questions were a definite NO!
Enough said!
BFA (and Wayne above):
Pure and simple – it didn't matter if the people were told facts or lies by the government. Point is, the PUB said it didn't have enough info, there was significant dissension in the public media about if MF was good or bad – and 80% still bought it hook, line and sinker. Infact, to this day 25-30% of the public still think MF is a good idea – and it took until 2017 for a majority to think MF was a bad idea. There is no logical explanation, other than the public WANTED to believe and they as a whole ignored the facts (ie were willingly deceived) – and I have no pity for someone being willingly deceived.
If the public isn't gullible – then explain why there are still to this day 6 elected members in the house of assembly that voted for MF in 2011? And a 7th member who voted for MF in 2011 lost a reelection attempt (ie the PC candidate as Port de Grave member) in May by only 300 votes
PENG2
PENG2
Simply put?
You are full of crap!
BFA @ 13:47:
Have you got anything of consequence as to why we are still electing those that voted for MF in 2011 into the HoA? While you are at it, can you explain why 25-30% of the public still supports MF?
Maybe when you give these answers an intelligent discussion can start on how to fix the endemic issues in NL voting patterns.
PENG2
PENG2 can you tell the readers of this blog who pays you to submit comments blaming the electorate for muskrat falls? Is it the government, nalcor or other interested parties?
If you are being paid which I think you are, are you paid by the word or paragraph? Or do you have a contact for a set period? Are you one person or maybe a few ghost writers using the same moniker? Do you get vacation pay and pension contributions? Will you also receive a golden hand shake on your departure?
PENG2
Voting patterns and popular support?
Half the USA still stands behind Donald Trump and Trudeau got re-elected?
Two of the bigger jackasses to ever be elected leaders!
I much afraid there is quite a bit more wrong here in NL than voting patterns!
But if you think that is what got us into Muskrat Falls?
Have at her!
I've had my chuckle for today!
1. pENG2 has created his own definition of elite; must be super rich. over 100 million or more so we have no elites he says
2. WA names likely elites but Peng2 neither denies or opposes on those names
3. What is Peng2 magic number: all MHAs who voted for MFs must be voted out for redemption? Even 1 left would be a problem?
4. A mere handful opposed MFs in a public way, and that was sufficient to counter the Nalcor propaganda machine, and shady MHA operatives and hidden elites?
5. What did Peng2 himself/herself do to properly inform the public of the truth? Wait until it was too late, never go public, stay under the cone of silence, blame the ignorant electorate that they should have acquired this expert knowledge that even the Inquiry got baffled at times as to the depth of the deception. All should have seen the scam for what it is?
5. Only now EMERA references the "control" problems as to likely long delays yet for them to get power. The average person from Bung Hole Tickle should have been more informed on control software in 2012 than EMERA, now?
Peng2 spins a narrative, not credible, for what purpose, whose benefit, to protect who, he is one of the silent crowd, therefore an enabler of such boondoggles, me thinks.
PENG2, as to climate change, you say there are equally potential problems just as serious, but you don't downplay climate change. Nor do you up play it. I suggest it depends on the timeline one views it, the time it takes to solve it, and the risk impact of delay.
Some saw the problem 50 years ago, but not tipping points that are probably imminent in our present time. And what is at stake? Mankind survival. And we knowingly accelerate the risk and cost, with delay. Like a million MFs boondoggles we are ignoring.
You and I, as a Fortis shareholder, as one small example, should be vocal on Fortis doing more, as all corporations much do more, even if it means a reduction in dividend return short term, as it will pay long term. Do you disagree? Mark Carney, no fool, warns of the risk to delay solving the problem. So do we differ just on the time line to act? If not , how do we act? Can you or I get a meeting with Ball like Fortis CEO, to say do more and faster ?
Winston
Anony @ 19:10:
Your post is pretty typical of NLers when someone says something they dont like – Id suggest you go back and read (and actually understand what I actually typed), pretty obvious you either skimmed over or didnt read and just formed wrong opinions.
Again – dont misquote me, you have made several misquotes of what I said:
1) wrong, all I said was that noone in NL shows up on a listing of the top 200 richest Canadians – and that we suffer from big fish in small pond syndrome. I didn't define elite in any way shape or form – I challenge you to find a quote of me doing so.
2) OK, whats the point? I guess WA also made his own definition of elite, but I didn't debate his definition(and he didnt post it either) with him either.
3) the issue of the PUBLIC still voting in MHAs who voted for MF in 2011 was brought up because BFA tried above to extol the virtues of Paul Lane – again, Paul Lane was a huge supporter who suppressed opposition to MF in 2011 and certainly isn't someone who should be spouting off now. And yes, the PUBLIC shouldn't be talking until they voted out all of the MHAs responsible, unfortunately most those MHAs are not going for reelection and are getting to walk away with pensions etc and can say they always had the public support.
4) again, there was enough opposition IF people wanted to listen – problem was almost everybody bought into the energy warehouse BS.
4 and 5) do some research, there was no engineering reports supporting MF in its present form before DW took power in 2003. Infact Grimes had a collaboration worked out with Hydro Quebec that would been a much better deal for the province, but the god sent DW scuttled that. And yes, there was enough info out there that the public should have at least asked questions – but again bought the energy warehouse BS and DIDNT want to ask questions.
6) no expectation of the average person to know the technical side, but the average person should want to be engaged – the NL public neglects this responsibility with our voting practices.
The PC administrations did use publicity to pressure down opposition and played the HQ bogey man – but it was the PUBLIC that bought that bull$shit and endorsed MF wholeheartedly.
PENG2
WA @ 19:36:
Have you seen this:
https://www.fortisinc.com/news-and-media/details/fortis-utilities-take-action-to-decrease-greenhouse-gas-emissions-and-increase-renewable-energy-use
PENG2
Missed that Release PENG2. it is very important:
1. A piece of fluff, propaganda and PR by Ms Karen McCarthy, Vice President , Communications /Corp Affairs.
2. it gave me a chuckle.
3. coming from you, it is similar to Bruno on Tesla and Bruno batteries, surprised if he don't come back to UG to have a crack at you for this blunder on your part.
4 it is a very big joke, you must know, as a technical person, you lose what credibility you may have with this. rethink and comment I suggest, as it is hardly worth detailing why it is so bad a piece to post. But Fortis thought it was great , I guess.
Winston
Bottom Feeders Anon and his/her apologists
blah, blah, blah
tie the crown of thorns on PENG2
skate away from the truth
you "done" it, and the other 80% of NL population who "done" it
why the F**k can't you own up to it
this is your own little (well actually province-killing) bag of poop
it's yours, you won't be bottom feeding is you wish to stay here, you'll have to dig down into the sediment to survive
WA @ 22:22:
On it own, you are correct it says nothing and is little more that getting some saying B$ in public.
But, there are a couple other documents that probably refute your claim Fortis is doing nothing:
https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/391/2018/08/FortisBC.pdf
https://www.fortisbc.com/about-us/environment/partnering-for-climate-action
Anyway, I know we had the climate change discussion before – I stand by what I said then. Canada produces only 1.63% of global GHGs(and NL produces about 1.4% of the Canadian total ~725mt), we as Canadians have a responsibility to 'walk-the-talk' and live efficiently and reduce our production, but even if Canada reduced its production of GHG by 40% tomorrow, it still will not have an impact on climate change. Canada's greatest contribution in the global community to working against climate change will be leading by example, but not in reducing GHG is a quantifiable way that produces a global affect.
Having said that, NL did have a 2% increase in GHG production between 2005 and 2015 – a trend we need to correct. there were 5 provinces with a increasing trend – NL in addition to MB(1%), SK(8%), AB(16%) and NU(18%).
PENG2
With Reference to what PENG2 said about Paul Lane. Do i recall a time when Paul and his office of cronies were "working" the VOCM web site to have the (so very insignificant) "Question of the Day" come out in the governments favor on issues like MF. Now that's a great use of your time at the HoA isn't it?
PENG2, I thought I might have vexed you, as my comment was not of a good tone, say.
1. The Fortis piece from Sept 23 notes them to be a leader in electric and gas with 2018 revenue of 8.4 billion and assets of 52 billion (by the way that is over 3 times our stake in Churchill Falls, say 15 billion. I suppose assets is not net worth.). Also 18.3 billion capital plan over the next 5 years, includes supporting a green grid. Nothing of the percentage of this for greening
2 CEO Barry Perry (who I cites as being a local elite) says Fortis BC and Tucson are setting targets on GHG ….seeing good progress for cleaner energy to customers; for BC increasing renewable gas supply, zero carbon vehicles and transportation infrastucture.
3. Tucson is in partnership with University of Arizona to support 100% clean energy for the campus by 2030. What of MUN here, and local plans to use inefficient resistance heating for MUN and schools
4. Perry says they are setting targets.
5. page 2 is all about taking this with a grain of salt; these are "forward looking statements' with words like target, may , might , statements involves significant risk, uncertainities and assumptions. It cautions the readers that results could differ materially, don't put undue reliance on this it says. Targets are not stated to be verifiable, so this I suggest is green washing.More loopholes than Nalcor with MFs risk factors.
6. Fortis has a dozen or more subsidaries, why only 2 for GHG concerns?
7. The piece does not state Fortis emissions, some 15 million tons of CO2 per year, if I recall correctly, and getting worse not better.
8. Tucson is burning coal , I think. A sunny area but only plans to be 30% green by 2030, and a bit ahead of target. How are they to meet the Paris Accord? Barry calls Fortis plan as "ambitious"…..wink , wink, liar , liar , his pants on fire…….what would Greta say to him?
8. In BC they now promote efficient GAS heating. natural gas is still adding CO2. True , new condensing gas furnaces are 96 % efficient so if the old ones are 75 %, they can reduce some. But this is far from minisplits running on hydro, wind or solar, getting 300 % efficiency.
9 Overall a fluff piece, and what is their plan for Nfld,their new Conservation and Efficiency plan not unveiled , and tied to mitigation of rates, and reliability concerns?
I would like, for a start to see Nfld Power advocate and tender for our 400MW of wind addition, by Nfld Power to compete against Nfld Hydro, and too for our small hydro additions, likely can do better than Nfld Hydro
Winston
WA @ 10:12:
No vexing at all – I am always good for good technical discussion. Misquoting me however, does pi$$ me off.
I know might seem like a small point – but Fortis goal in NL isn't power generation, they have no ability under the law to generate power outside their legacy operations unless Government grants them permission. Generation is solely under the guise of NL Hydro.
To that end, I would also say Fortis in this province generate 0 GHG in power generation (but am not sure). So, in playing devil's advocate I would say their GHG reductions will benefit other areas only.
Again, appearances to be a leader are important, not the quantity of the reduction for us in NL and Canada – and the TEP is an American reduction.
PENG2
PENG2, Nfld Power has many small hydro sites in Nfld, in total about 100 MW, little jewels I think, if most line at the Isthmus went down, and these still cost effective, and some over 100 years old. I would say if not restricted by govn, they would go for development of more island hydro hydro and wind.
Little Fortis GHG from Nfld, agreed, but plenty from Nfld Hydro. Fortis has overall high GHG, as as we live on one planet, GHG from Arizona equally or almost so, impact Nfld, and world climate. I beleive Bertshire Hathaway is a leader in green energy , or tending that direction, not so much Fortis.
Nfld Power here can impact Nfld Hydro GHG footprint by better conservation and EE measures. On this they failed big time, and continue to fail worse over recent years.
Appearances are deceptive, like don't judge a book by the cover.
Nfld and Canada is among the top per person carbon footprint, hardly a leader for small footprint. Appearances are not important, as the devil is in the details. And if you advocate for the devil, then we must expose the details that the devil covers up. Nalcor did this big time to deceive the public, with details emerging after the Inquiry. And likely the devil not fully exposed yet on that. LOL.
Maybe you play the devil's advocate too much? The devil is evil after all, and might deceive you. Look at Cohen as Trump's advocate, and now Rudi, his advocate, who used to root out evil, to now aid Trump re-election, now assisting evil. And Trump "digs coal and fossil fuel, the more the better" ………is that not evil. The Pope thinks so, so immoral it seems.
And did you calculate the Ball barrel size as to our ethical oil?
Winston
WA @ 15:24:
I am not so sure if gov regulations were laxed NL Power would go after either more generation or more distribution in NL – I just don't see the profit making ability. Maybe I am wrong, but its just my gut – they had the opportunity to get involved in MF in 2010 but they declined.
A report I have from Fortis indicated they generated 10.9mT of GHG based on ~17TWhr of generation. NL hydor in 2016(same year) generated 10.8mT GHG on ~10-12TWhr of generation(with UC excluded). So, Fortis actually produces 'cleaner' power than NL Hydro on the whole (and about the same GHG for 50% more electricity generation) – not sure where your 'major generator of GHG' comes from when related to Fortis.
Canada has a per capita generation of GHG of about 21t/person – NL is almost identical in proportional GHG generation (again 2016/2017 numbers). And Canada is 10th globally – sure we have room for improvement and can reduce, but we are not among the top as you said.
Finally, I know you grind on Fortis, but they have lower the GHG-TWhr of generation from 679 to 641 over the period 2014 through 2016 and have set some pretty good goals going forward.
Id say some better research is in order – I know you want better efficiency programs, but I still say that is NL Hydro and governments responsibility, not the distributors issue.
PENG2
PENG2 @ 16:59:
Typo correction:
[start]
Finally, I know you grind on Fortis, but they have lowered the intensity factor for GHG-TWhr from 679 to 641 over the period 2014 through 2016 and have set some pretty good goals going forward.
[end]
PENG2
How many remote sites in NL could operate economically and feasibly this way?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/remote-bc-school-getting-most-powe-from-450k-solar-energy-1.5377752
Tune in now to the 3 stooge shitshow;
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/premiers-ford-moe-and-higgs-make-an-announcement-on-nuclear-reactors-live-1.5290581
At least Ball had good sense not to appear with these 3, and embarrass us all over again.
PENG2. 1. maybe my memory is off but I recall Fortis GHG at 15 m tons and may have increased from your numbers with their last acquisition?
I don't like intensity factors as it is deceptive , i suggest. If I have a small house with 10 watts per sq ft., and then go to a very large house with 9 watts per sq ft, all fed by Holyrood thermal mix in winter, I can claim a lower intensity , about 10 % reduced, but actually I am using much more oil burning and more GHG. So intensity is deceptive generally.
2 If Canada is #10 out of almost 200 countries, are they not among the worse? Russia and USA similar to Canada?
3 Granted, govn should set the standards, but with an elite like Fortis CEO telling Ball to go slow o the carbon tax, and Ball says YES SIR, and Nfld Power delivers a piss poor CDM Plan, then they are joined at the hip. You disagree? Worse in Canada, except perhaps the remote northern areas of Canada.
Fortis does a little better in BC, because govn policy is more strict.
So , Fortis is not a green leader, but a laggard, I suggest. but some USA utilities are bad, some much better and leaders.
Synapse gave some examples on that. NL is bad by any measure.
Winston
WA @ 18:20:
I am thinking your 15mt number also included energy purchased by Fortis for redistribution. For our discussion that would be 2x counting GHG since Fortis buys from NL Hydro (among others where GHG was already included in generation) – the ~11mt is based on Fortis own generated power only (ie excluding what the purchased for distribution). The main point of that was that Fortis and NL Hydro produce effectively the same GHG, but Fortis produces 50% more electricity – so, much better than NL Hydro (who I think you have said before produce green power??).
As for intensity factors – you argument is sound IF you change your living space etc. I quoted because it was based on the SAME generation facilities and was showing effectiveness of upgrades that were made, so I'd argue that in this case intensity factors are relevant – but agree on the need to carefully considered.
I just have an issue with your concept that private business is responsible for setting policy – I have no issue assigning Gov/NL Hydro the blame for poor CDM and overall efficiency in NL
PENG2
I think Fortis 15 m does include purchased power, but would be surprised if Holyrood is greater than all other Fortis purchased power. I am open to proper numbers on that.
Yes intensity with production improvements can be ok, but as you agreed , deceptive in other ways.
As to private industry setting the policy, an example is Perry's influence with Ball, so elites running the show, or undue influence.
In 2015 Tom Johnson said Nfld POwer and Nfld Hydro both failed in CDP measures to the PUB, and suggested improvements….I thought they would not be opposed
I went to Fortis AGM, chatted with Nfld POwer Gary Smithb , he laughed to say our Consumer Advocate didn't have the last word. Indeed , it was all as Gary Smith wanted, no changes.
Next year I went to the Fortis AGM . They boasted of their profits and expansion, and took questions.
I wentt to the mike and stated that our CDM was second worst in the country , Take Charge under Nfld Power and Nfld Hydro and Nfld Power a Fortis subsidary.
Perry stated " Fotis doesn't like to be 2nd last at anything" I had hoped this would see some positive result in Nfld. About 1/3 the audience applauded my questioning this, as it impacts customers electricity costs.
As most there are for to hear the good news of profits, I was surprised at any applause, I being critical of Fortis and Nfld POwer.
So last week new data; all provinces rated on energy efficincy improvements; Nfld now worst province at number 10 behind Sk. Of 100 points max possible, BC is best at 56, PQ #2 , Ont #3 NS#4, SK #9 at 18 points , NL #10 at 15 points worst of all. Residential energy use is a big component, especially in NL with high winter heat loads….leading to the boondoggle.
So what has Perry done and where is our improved CDM?
If you deny the power of corporate elites then you look away from Fortis and Nfld Power where expertise exists. Their surveys say saving on power bills is #1 for their customers wanting conservation, and yet junk programs fed to the public, deliberate deception, plain and simple. joined a the hip, my view. The public little aware of the extent of the deception.
NL is worse in many fields, whether colon cancer and outcomes to EE programs, provincial debt load , on and on. Lets propose Barry Perry's earnings be linked, meaningfully, to Fortis's greening and GHG reductions. Maybe then we will see "material " changes? You and I will draft the proposal to Fortis?
Winston
When not commenting, I am usually distracted with medical issues, and we are in a crisis with 99,000 with no family doctor, and health outcomes always bad here as to the money spent. Haggi should be grilled by the media and Ches and Alison, and then forced to resign.
Can't connect the dots " he says. Did we not to that in grade one? My wife says before grade one. So Haggi is competent, on the face of it.
Now I'm distracted by history. Joey's granddaughter visited with me for 5 hours seeking historical information on my father's business operations in the 1920's to 1945.
Some may know she worked on Joey's encylopedias, and did much with Johnson Foundation and historical signs all around here. Now doing work for smaller towns, good for tourism it seems. We're very late into this.
She was looking for information, especially photos on his schooners and fishery involvement. I was able to assist her. Then after I go on a tangent…, reading on the Gaspe history, that part of Quebec.
Who of UG readers ever hear tell of the ROBBINS empire, or know where Jersey is? Or the second oldest company in Canada, after The Hudson bay Company. Or understand or even heard of the TRUCK system that was abolished in England in 1831, even before, slave ownership was abolished I think.
Gaspe was much like Nfld fishery and how it was controlled. And they were attacked much more by the English then Nfld was attacked by the French. Only now I learn of this . My wife never heard of the "truck system ". So much for our education system. She taught school for a while, early 1970s.
I remembered for Joey's daughter a schooner: the Whitman. Had a photo of her being salvaged in 1937 at Labrador, 10 year before I was born, but Google turned up nothing, for a while…..so my tangent detour.
Winston
So……Google not helpful on the search, at first. Most comes up is the poet Walt Whitman. Then I seem to recall the Whitman had letters before it the name….H A, I wonder. Not much luck there. My memory, not so sharp. I try A H Whitman……and bingo. Owner capt Esau Adams, lost dec 5 , 1938, with a cargo of logs near Bay Roberts. She looked much like the Bluenose. She was built in Mahone , NS, Why the name AH Whitman? He was connected to the Robbins Empire in NS, NB and Gaspe PQ.
Why did I confuse HA instead of AH? HA was the initials of HA winter, In my fathers entries, who dis tributed liquorin the 1932 election, just before our bankruptcy, and Winter later a Supreme Court judge, but did'nt mind buying voted wit liquor, hey b'y.
Was he an elite then?
So my memory played a few tricks, and once I go to it right Google led me on the tangent, to the Robbins empire and PQ history I was ignorant of. There is over 1000 letters by the Robbin on their mode of operation, and the Truck system and fishermen, and carried on in Nfld much longer. Our history, at the mercy of the elites, is more like PQ than we think. According to PENG2 we have no elites.
Winston
The Google item "Focus on the Gaspe: A rich history to discover. 32 pages, produced by the Quebec Anglophone Heritage Network : mission is to help advance knowledge of the history and culture of English – speaking society in Quebec.
I found it very interesting and informative and useful insights for rural Nlfd as to heritage and culture, that is sadly lacking for tourists to know our own history. Maybe UG readers will read it, as we have much in common with Quebec I suggest. We have much more to offer than Dildo craze, and Capt Dildo with Ball.
Winston Adams
The "Truck" system, that of credit dependency among fishermen on companies.
The word Truck for credit made as much sense as heat pumps did to Nlfder 10 years ago, or now( how do these gadgets make hot air out of cold outdoor air, and 300 % efficient when 100 % seems tops to achieve)
So Truck I learn now is derived from the French verb troquer(to trade) widely used in the nineteen century (the 1800s) and in Nfld up to 1940.
They didn't teach me French in school, so a dummy on that word.
Winston
I found one reference of the AH Whitman under the Royal Navy ships of WW1 , Naval History, : A H Whitman, decoy or Q ship (schooner conversion), but no other details. She was launched in 1916 but that same ship yard shows no ships for a couple of years then, so maybe decoys built in NS?
Few now realize that sub warfare is mostly the German wolf packs of WW2 , but in WWI German subs same to Canada and the USA coast and sunk vessels ( a technical achievement for them, most Nfld schooners sunk as they approached Europe)…….so maybe that schooner had hidden cannon to sink subs that surfaced off eastern Canada ?
A good friend and fellow grad of NSTC, class of 1960, used to often comment; "but everything is relative". Usually this was directed at his first employer's 9:1 management style, with his wry Bell Island Irish smile. Consider this, Important elites in the FED Bank $US paper scheme, (Coming to a crash sometime in our near futures), state that "Real Money is Gold, everything else is just a promise". So when we took our first jobs in 1960, starting salary was about 150 oz gold. Or reflected in todays' "money" $220,000. Compare that to the above stated contract payouts, and one could conclude that the NALCOR exec are only marginally rewarded slightly higher that us 1960 Broncos!! I take back some of my previous comments about Muskrat Engineers and Managers being overpaid for what they did under contract. I do think that most NSTC 60 Engineers worked harder for their oz of gold.
Somebody, please wake me up when Stan gives us the latest estimate of Project Cost to complete, including all deficiencies, contract disputes, commissioning, operational readiness, allowances for changes, resignations and firings of senior and regular project personnel, including Stan's own retirement package. Thanks.