Guest Post by Ron Penney

Government put out its rate mitigation plan last April prior to the provincial
also asked the Public Utilities Board to examine rate mitigation and hearings
are presently underway.
both efforts are being promised and undertaken in isolation, ignoring the real
elephant in the room, our dire financial situation.

our own Auditor General and the Parliamentary Budget Officer of Canada have
painted a bleak picture of our long term fiscal situation for many years but
those concerns have been ignored and our government continues to budget for
significant deficits for the foreseeable future. While their projections point
to a surplus in a few years time it is a moving target and it is highly
unlikely that, based on the current trends of revenues and expenditures, it
will ever be realized.

I recognize that it is very difficult to reduce expenditures and programs that
will have to be done as we cannot continue to add to our long term debt year
after year.
fact is that we have the highest per capital revenues of any province in Canada
but we also have the highest per capita expenditures, expenditures which are in
excess of our revenues year after year, continually adding to our long term
debt. We are living beyond our means.
interest on this increasing debt will have to be paid for, reducing the amount
of revenue  available to fund government
addition we face a number of additional challenges which will have adverse
impacts on our fiscal situation. Our population is both getting older and
smaller in numbers. Our aging population is imposing accelerating health care
costs and our declining and older population is reducing our tax base.
hope of new oil fields fuels some optimism, it must be remembered that new oil
fields are  in deep water, at a great
distance from shore, will be costly to develop with reduced local benefits and
face pressure to reduce our royalties. And we need to understand and accept
that world wide public pressure to reduce dependence on fossil fuels will have
an adverse impact on the exploitation of our oil and gas fields as it does for
the other oil producing provinces in Canada.
we continue along this road we are eventually likely to have further reductions
in our credit rating. We have seen the first hint of this with the decision of
Moody’s to downgrade our credit rating, citing continuing deficits and Muskrat
Falls as the reason. Our bonds are still “investment grade” but we are going
down a path to our bonds becoming “junk bonds”, with the resulting impacts on
interest rates and even our ability to borrow at all.
brings me to rate mitigation and our fiscal challenge. The only sure rate
mitigation tool is the fuel savings from the reduction in use of Holyrood,
which the government estimates is worth $178 million a year. All of the rest is
speculative at best.
PUB rate mitigation hearings are useful to the extent that they allow some of
the other rate 
proposals to be challenged.
would like to focus on one of the rate mitigation proposals, which is the
proposal to divert so-called “dividends” to rate mitigation. Those dividends do
not materialize out of thin air. They have to come from our electricity bills
which we have to pay upfront, and will be reflected in our electricity bills by
adding them to the targeted rate of 13.5 cents per kilowatt hour. So they will
come out of one of pockets and put back in the other. It’s a shell game.
other factor is that those rates will be escalating by 2.25% a year. (Once
ratepayers understand that, the race to put in heat pumps will a accelerate ,
reducing demand and causing further rate increases.)
those “dividends” were already committed to paying off the $3.7 billion dollars
we borrowed for equity in the project. Who’s going to pay for that? The answer
is that we are, adding another hundred million dollars a year to our debt
servicing costs. And where do we get that? We will have to go out and borrow
that as well, if we can.
debt servicing costs are more than we pay for education. They will soon to
catch up to health care if we keep going down this road, assuming we can still
find someone foolish enough to continue to lend us the money.
have two choices. Either we handle it ourselves or the federal government will
have to step in and do it for us.
essential first step is to educate ourselves.
don’t as a society recognize the dire straits we are in. As an example, even
what should be the most sophisticated government funded institutions, such as
my alma mater, Memorial, are advocating new costly initiatives such as a Law
leads to a proposal, which I suggested in a recent radio interview on CBC, and
that is the creation of a panel of our best and brightest to examine our fiscal
situation and the impact of Muskrat Falls on that situation and to recommend
a select committee of our House of Assembly should be formed to receive the
report and hold public hearings throughout the province. We need to recognize
that this is a non-partisan issue.
for one don’t want to have a faceless federal bureaucrat having to approve
every expenditure we want to make. Do you?

Ron Penney


Bill left public life shortly after the signing of the Atlantic Accord and became a member of the Court of Appeal until his retirement in 2003. During his time on the court he was involved in a number of successful appeals which overturned wrongful convictions, for which he was recognized by Innocence Canada. Bill had a special place in his heart for the underdog.

Churchill Falls Explainer (Coles Notes version)

If CFLCo is required to maximize its profit, then CFLCo should sell its electricity to the highest bidder(s) on the most advantageous terms available.


This is the most important set of negotiations we have engaged in since the Atlantic Accord and Hibernia. Despite being a small jurisdiction we proved to be smart and nimble enough to negotiate good deals on both. They have stood the test of time and have resulted in billions of dollars in royalties and created an industry which represents over a quarter of our economy. Will we prove to be smart and nimble enough to do the same with the Upper Churchill?


  1. Align Expenditures on Income with
    a percentage of the cost of an oz of Gold.
    My webSite charged advertizers 1% of the Price of
    an oz of Gold, on Feb 14, of the fiscal year.
    Each new Rate wouldn't begin until several months later,
    to give the Gold Price, on Feb 14, a chance to be Real in the Economy.

  2. The picture you present is real and accurate. Political support in mainland Canada for a NL bailout does not exist, either among the politicians or the people there, so we better start figuring this out for ourselves.

    In 2014, when the price of oil crashed, it was obvious that cuts to government spending were necessary and, now 5 years later, are long overdue.

    In addition, creating a more business friendly environment is also necessary to grow the economy. Right now, NL is very business unfriendly partly because of the toxic nature of NL unions. Employers are largely demonized by union leaders so very little ever gains traction in NL. Promising start-up enterprises generally leave when they start to grow because conditions for business success are so poor in NL.

    Many won't agree with my comments which is okay but if people keep living in denial, the severity of the final outcomes will be far worse than making voluntary changes to address what's real.

  3. 1. Even at present, fuel savings at Holyrood is speculative, depending on reliable operation of MFs. Last year only one pole operating, they only got a max of 150 MW, was shut down in June, and not to operate this fall, waiting for software from GE to operate on 2 poles. Maybe will operate in 2020 but yet uncertain as to reliability.
    2. As to a large uptake in heatpumps; leading to reduced revenue…..that is speculative and dismisses the recommendation of Synapse to increase loads lost to HPs. That requires good management and incentives to gradually increase loads. This too is speculative, assuming MFs operates ok, and more electricification works, especially EVs uptake. Even NP says this is the way to go, to maximize our energy available.
    Seems contradictory, to plan to reduce and increase loads, but is valid and requires controlling winter peak demand. Surprised Ron fails to understand that or just dismisses it?
    3 If MFs don't operate ok, then more HPs is badly needed to reduce Holyrood fuel use, and also likely wind or other island hydro energy needed.
    4. Any panel considering energy management without expertise on excellent CDM opportunities is not prudent…much can be learned from NS Efficiency, an independent entity. Why is that approach never discussed in Nfld?
    No issue with Ron's other points, but cutting down the winter HUMP peak load vs summer load is essential to help in the solution. If AJ sees that, and he long does, why is it hard for others? Did Synapse not clearly illustrate this with charts at the PUB? I wasn't there, so asking. Their reports clearly explains it.
    Winston Adams

  4. All good stuff Mr. Penney.

    Yes, there is a place for our best and brightest.

    But it was our 'best and brightest' [Williams, Kennedy, Martin, Locke, Johnson, Ball, Marshall, etc., etc., along with some federal politicians, top-notch (?) business, MBAs and engineering firms/consultants, etc.] – our best and brightest – that comprised the top-down process that got us in, and is keeping us in, the mess that we now find ourselves.

    Real, common-sense change comes from the bottom up.

    As evidenced by the MF fiasco itself, best and brightest, top-down only recommended solutions will not result in what we need, what we can afford, and what will keep the risk of economic, social and democratic collapse to a minimum.

    I would suggest that a process similar in principle to what the MF public inquiry referred to as an integrated resource planning (IRP) approach – a more bottom-up process – is what is needed. And if the problem is to be clearly defined/fleshed out and solutions found, government (perhaps both provincial and federal) will need to work together to recognize the nature, elements and magnitude of the problem and then to provide real/meaningful support for the creation of such a structure/process and then to see to it that its execution reflects what is in the best interest of the people and province.

    A monumental task for sure.

    • The people you list are not the best and brightest that NL has to offer. The best and brightest keep their heads down to avoid the political cross fire that is NL and have no opportunity to participate in finding solutions to NL problems without ridicule and insults from many who live here.

      People are classified and tagged as "elite" because they are wealthy or educated, while the truth is most of those people started out with nothing and worked hard to better themselves. Many of those "elites" grew up in ordinary households throughout NL and better relate to the common man than to anything elite. Tags and labels have pushed these people away and made them outsiders in their own province.

      If you want to mobilize the best and the brightest, it starts with dropping the labels and the poisonous attacks. In the absence of mutual respect and civility, only the loud mouths and bullies will dominate the dialogue and nothing will ever be solved like that. Otherwise, the best and the brightest will continue as bystanders to the political and economic meltdown of the province, instead focusing on the advancement of themselves and their families, and for many, somewhere else outside of NL.

    • In France, the intellectual Marcon, brought in the fuel tax, France being foremost in the climate change agenda. The rural people rioted because it offers solutions to the urban people but was a heavy burned on rural people……so the yellow jacket revolt, making Macron rethink his approach. Now he sees that policy must appropriately consider rural low and middle income people, who are dependent on their automobiles, but also believe that climate change is a problem needing fixing. The protesters have been active for many months, and Marcon sees his error, and will modify policy.
      Here with the carbon tax, that too must be circulated back to households to permit them to adjust, not handed back to polluting industry. Here too rural Nfld is ignored, the fishery always mismanaged, Byrne now a disgrace with the salmon die off, he kept silent.
      So , yes , there is wisdom in the masses and MFs was top down, so to top down with the failing CDM measures, and ignored wind assets, and island small hydro……all for the mega project and mega debt,to benefit the few, and burden the many.
      And who now deciding our way forward for energy use? The residential customers at the mercy of those who even excluded MFCCC. Where is voice of the common man at these PUB hearings? Is Dennis Browne as good as it gets? Or Peter Alteen, now out from his cone of silence? Or Krista, the Energy Efficiency person, after a decade of mostly fake EE. Will she be guiding Synapse or synapse guiding her, or Fortis/Ball pulling the strings of all? Krista as competent as Stratton was with our forecasting? And would do it the same all over agin he said, proudly.
      How am I voting? No Green running in the east end, is there? NDP Harris…washed up, and supported MFs, but now says he only supported the MFs concept, not the mechanics of it! MFs was not complex to Jack's thinking? The PC canidate running is touting off shore oil, his pet platform.
      That leave Trudeau's man, who I don't like,nor his boss, but may be the lesser of the evils. And besides, he took a scolding from Greta, and now Obama supports him too, but he's no Obama. Seems I'm leaning Liberal this time.

  5. I agree with you Maurice or best and brightest got us in this mess, it makes you wonder how bright they really are.

    I would suggest to Mr. Penney that we create a panel not of our best and brightest but a panel composed of people who have manages to pay off their mortgage after a lifetime of work and who also have been smart enough to pay off any credit card debt every month. You know people with every day common sense who know how to manage their household money. That is the kind of people we need to look at this mess and try to dig our way out, average everyday people.

    Our best and brightest in my opinion have never been smart with our Newfoundland wealth, you need only look at the dire straits we are in now to prove this. No matter how many royalties we have coming in to the government account we have always spent more. I guess we have paid for our politicians to get re-elected, promises, promises the sky is the limit for the political class who have no morals. Sad but true.

  6. Muskrat is an example of how bullshit baffles brains. How do you combat that is the question because the bullshit continues. Just look at the bullshit of climate emergency promoted by the media that ensues at the present time from nothing but political science alone.

    • Climate emergency is believed by so many people because any science to the contrary is attacked and the press loves sensational headlines. Climate change is real and changes with solar output – nobody denies that because it is obvious. Man made climate emergency is fabricated.

      If we had a truly free press and if journalism actually existed – BS wouldn't get the time of day, or it would be eviscerated by tough, intelligent questions.

      Nobody in the press seriously went after the fake power demand, fake construction costs, sole source contracts of transmission lines, and conflicts of interest. They didn't because powerful people and interests wanted Muskrat Falls. When it comes to climate change, the money and power behind that scam dwarf Danny by many orders of magnitude. Going after climate emergency BS is currently up there with eating babies.

    • Yes anon, the media promoting BS about the climate emergency, from political science alone, and more people believing that BS.
      People with real, hard science knowledge are ignored. People like Andy Wells, a pure science guy, not political, tweets regular that the danger is global cooling, not heating. And another, The Digger, one A Brain Peckford, another pure scientist, and no political interest, uses his blog to educate that the climate emergency is a myth……but few pay attention to these real honest climate scientists.
      Many believe BS as you say.
      One chap, now touted as one of the first fear mongers and alarmists, in 1957 announced that his calculations predicted a rise in CO2 would melt the ice caps and drown much of New York City and other coastal regions.He explained the science as he understood it, …the idiot.Then shortly after stated the same to a convention of the American Petrol Institute. He eventually got the title of the Mad Scientist. That was Edward Teller, an earlier version of Greta Thunberg, another low IQ person I suppose.
      Then a few years ago, this disabled man, a scientist of some sort, in a wheelchair, using a talking computer to communicate…..he said climate change was a bigger threat to our civilization that nuclear war. That chap, Hawking, Stephen his first name ……another alarmist.
      That Teller guy was instrumental in developing the atomic bomb, and then the hydrogen bomb…….what would he know about CO2. He was so foolish ,that at the first test explosion he faced the explosion , miles away, with special glasses on, ignored warnings to turn his back, but luckily survived and developed the hydrogen bomb…..but that is not real science.He developed plans to blow up asteroids before they hit earth, and for lazers for the Star War defense of Ronald Reagan…..but CO2 is another field, howcould he do calculations on that in 1957? That he received Einstein Awards and many other awards….how can that compare to Andy wells and the Digger, in the field of science?
      Same goes for Hawkings. He might understand the cosmos, but not an authority on CO2. For God's sake, harmless CO2 we breathe out constantly. That can't be harmful, and maybe too little CO2 was why Sprung cucumbers failed here. What harm is 100 million barrels a day of oil being burned? What goes up , must come down, and sucked up by trees and the ocean, without limit. Andy and Brain knows that and so do you and I. We all know who understands real science, and what is fake science opinions. I put my name in support of Andy and Brain, and not afraid who knows. I suggest you do the same anon, as more of us are needed to spread the truth, and cut the BS on this climate emergency. Another MFs racket, surely.
      Winston Adams

    • Now we all know St. Greta, with her years of peer-reviewed scientific work, is not to be challenged lest you be called out by the great unwashed. Jesus even Pam Frampton of The Telegram posted an "editorial" stating that after a visit from Extinction Rebellion (ER), you know that highly esteemed organization (tongue firmly planted in cheek), Salt Wire are fully on board with Climate Hysteria. I can't help but wonder did ER have a cheque in hand from George Soros?

    • Ah, anon, St Greta cannot be challenged, as she cites peer reviewed climate science , which is was 97 % on board with fossil fuel burning as the major problem, now 98% vs 2 % denial. One must ignore the junk science of ANDY and YOUNG ALF,the bookends of the great unwashed.
      ER has much following, is peaceful protest by a cross section of ordinary and professional people, with real science on their side.
      Not only Pam and Saltwire seeing the Light, but 74 % of Canadian voters it seems.
      For one rich dude, left of center, like Soros, there are thousands of rich far right like Trump and and the Davos crowd with their private jets thinking they have special privledge to destroy the climate, and supported by the oil/gas industry.
      And anon, you fear to give your name, least St Greta will say "How dare you", and deny you her blessing.
      That you invoke Jesus to condemn Pam Frampton shows your desperation. I think Jesus will ignore you. Repent oh you sinner!
      If you are Catholic, you risk excommunication form Francis, who also preaches the real science, like Greta. Try your luck, anon, with the Saint of Lost Causes.
      Winston Adams


  7. If the provincial government expects the federal government to provide $200 million a year for rate mitigation while failing to help itself is mind boggling. The discussion of dividends from Muskrat Falls to keep rates low is asinine if the same people you are claiming to help are the ones you are planning to fleece. There is only one way for the government to seriously mitigate rates and that is to use the $2.5 billion the federal government just guaranteed the province, most of which will be paid out over the next 11 years, and 1. buy out the assets of Amera in the Labrador Island link($800 million) with an interest on equity payout of 8.5% or $ 70million a year and 2. buy out the assets of Newfoundland power reported to be worth $1 billion, with a yearly profit of $41 million. You would then take any assets of Nalcor that are required and role them into Newfoundland Power and set the rest adrift. The new Newfoundland Power would operate as it did as an arm of Fortis so that it doesn't become the bloated incestuous monster Nalcor has become. With the aging demographic, the declining population and the projected fall in electricity demand there will only be room on the island for one power provider. Selling the assets of Nalcor to Fortis makes no sense as Fortis will expect to get it's purchase price back from the Newfoundland rate payer. Fortis will also not likely pay what the assets of Nalcor are worth so we will still have a major debt to pay. Saving $111 million a year from "free" money is a wise saving.

  8. Beware the "best and brightest".

    Some people have no ethics and are sociopaths or psychopaths. They lie, cheat and embellish their resumes. They get other people to write their thesis or acquire mail order degrees where their thesis is secret. They may insist you call them Doctor. They leave a trail of destruction at work and in their personal lives. If you question them, you become their enemy.

    These people are destined to become the heads of university departments and government managers. The most sociopathic of them all easily rise to the very top. Many are often well connected, come from money and have compromising information on others. Sometimes they are just excellent sycophants or useful idiots. They form a nasty club. Local media dares not challenge them. They are on boards of directors all over the place. They are a menace.

    The true best and brightest (competence/ethical/wise) are low profile. They have learned that they are a threat to sociopaths and generally need their jobs (income). The cannot speak out without large sacrifices. Des, Dave and Ron can afford to speak out — others like PlanetNL and JM likely have too much to lose.

    In order for the best and brightest to come out and fix the mess, the general public needs to see past the political party system which was developed to protect powerful interests, ignore media propaganda and find a way for the true best and brightest people to run our government. The public sector needs a mighty purge.

  9. Our economy has always been incredibly precarious. We had an opportunity over the past 20 years to make a meaningful impact by retiring our debt, and investing heavily in Fishing, Aquaculture, IT. Instead in this province we decided to triple down on energy. A catastrophic mistake.

    What is worse is that all focus was redirected from other alternative industries. We keep making the same mistakes in the fishery, Memorial University and their focus on Tech has been nothing short of a debacle, and recent events in Aquaculture clearly demonstrate we are decades behind.

    We have had piss poor leadership, plagued by a deeply insular view.

    Simply put we need a modern commission of government. Newfoundlander's are simply incapable of self rule.

  10. Listened to Paddy Daly……telling that Greta is going to Alberta, and she is not welcome there by oil interests…….many are to rev up their 18 wheelers.
    We have the funny song: Nflder in a Calgary Hat, some may recall, and oil on the brain now more widespread here than TB, and more dangerous than VD.
    Our oil industry here can probably out do the 18 wheeler guys, if Greta came here, we could pour oil into St John's Hr, like the Boston Tea Party, something dramatic to show oil is king, feeds our economy, and God put it in this would to be used and burned. Charlene Johnson can then the fuel to do a burn off in the harbour, to show how quick a slick problem can be solved.
    Paddy is surely turned Green, and must have Irish roots. Bruno says the next generation is to solve the climate heating problem, but Paddy seems more realistic; that our generation, who caused the problem, must act.
    Of course Paddy likes to hike his ratings, and invites opinions, so hard to say if he is greenwashing or the real deal. Maybe he will soon march with the students, time will tell.

    And the 2.6 million salmon die off……all ocean temperature related, or all disease related, of a bit of both? They say 120,000 of 2.6 million was disease related, and prior to the temperature rise, and those were harvested,as not harmful to humans, not perished. ISA was "suspected'in only 5 of the 166 cages.
    Has Bruno's certainty of disease killing all 2.6 million still stand? I think most had their Nike's on wanting to escape the 18-21 C temperature, but this high temperature and stressed fish could have been great for sea lice to attack too. An independent investigation is surely needed.

  11. Just read the Seamus O'Regan send home by mail. Could not find one word about rate mitigation!!! The lying silent-seven SOBs.
    The conservative send home by mail at least included for removal of the 7% GST on home energy and a removal of the 4.5 cents per litre carbon tax on gasoline. Who will NLers vote for??

  12. I very seldom listen to Paddy Daly show, but sometimes listen to his introduction of topics. This morning I heard much of his show: the fur was flying.
    Richard Cashin has lied low since 5 or 6 years ago with the 2041 anti Muskrat Group.This morning he called in, to announce he is voting against his long time friend Jack Harris and voting for the Trudeau government. EIther he read my mind, or read my comment on UG, as he spoke of Jack's support of MFs concept but not the mechanics, saying it was weasel words.
    Then Harris called in, to explain himself, ad then Nick Whalen too called in. Paddy says nothing wrong with anyone saying the reasons why they will vote a certain way, and I agree. Sure it's a secret ballot, but there is freedom of speech. Seems so many are afraid to say who they will vote for, maybe fearing backlash if "your party" don't get elected. Same reasons people feared speaking out against MFs, even now. So many expect favours from politicians that they keep silent. Let's face it, most of them are sleveens and scallywags, and the problem is too chose the best of a bad bunch, and try to keep them honest.
    Cashin says his friend Dennis Browne needs to come on Open Line and explain the mitigation issues.
    Yes , especially how HPs are only good for age 35 or younger, I'm all ears.Browne , I suggest is like Jack Harris, he doesn't understand the mechanics of rate mitigation, especially effective CDM measures. Can't even ask intelligent questions at the PUB. Seems to me he is front man for the power brokers. Didn't he say a while back customers are on their own? What kind of advocate is that? He is content with that, and offers just lip service. Paid by the hour plus expenses, all from our power bills. Anyone try emailing him, or only me that he ignores?
    Winston Adams

  13. From the last paragraph of the article…

    "I for one don’t want to have a faceless federal bureaucrat having to approve every expenditure we want to make. Do you?"

    Yes, in fact I do… by all means… whole-heartedly YES!!

    If it means relieving these fuckin corrupted, incompetent Newfie politicians of all responsibility for making decisions even remotely related to the province's finances, then YES, your goddamn-well right I do.

    • YES buddy, there is a god dam man, a man who god-dam-knows-what he is talking about, and god dammit don't mind saying it. I say hey, go, go god admit. And he don't give a good god dam. That's my contribution for the god dam day.

    • Anon 15:48 sounds like one of the teat-sucking nepotists or crony bastards succored by the very inept/corrupted Newfie politicians who've fuckered this province to the brink of bankruptcy.

      Hopefully when the place goes tits up so will the pension payouts.

  14. I used to have my daily drink of Lambs, before supper, but in recent years I go a week or two before I get the urge.
    Yesterday I had one, to celebrate. Another reasonably good MRI report on my wife's colon cancer progress. A critical time as to recurrence or not,in the liver. 3 resections of the liver already, and no definite recurrence since last November, as to cancer, but markers still fluctuating, so not yet time to let your guard down……but she is very fit right now, and may soon get the colon reversal, her bowel reconnected. I have some expertise on this now, inspecting the stoma twice weekly….so I was due a Lambs Light yesterday, on reading the MRI. I usually get these and read them well before the doctors. Once posted by the radiologist, I rush off to the records division. Sometimes I get the scan and view it on the computer.
    Then too , my grandson, Ryan Ricard, one of the 3 blood cancer survivors, this on NTV, CBC, VOCM,yesterday. 3 boys at the one school, Holy Spirit, a big celebration event there. I hear the trio are celebrities at today at school. He planned to be naval architect, but now plan to be a doctor. Almost 2 years ago, age 12,he was turned away from the Janeway, twice I think, they suggesting he had a minor pain issue. His mother then demanded a scan, as he was losing sensation in his feet. Fortunately they listened. A tumor rapped around his spine was very aggressive. Another 24 hrs he may have been permantly paralised. Surgery had to be done immediately, followed by aggressive chemo where it had spread to lymph in his body. His life was for months was in question. That was last year. This summer he spent 45 days on the salt water learning to sail, hanging over the side as counter balance, such has been his recovery. The cancer is a rare type, but 85 % success rate when properly treated.

    So, what would drive me to drink another Lambs tonight? Just one ounce mind you, not a bottle.The answer…… Andy Wells….for his blunt honesty, as he sees it, from his testimony today at the PUB.
    Bruno sometimes quotes the saying of Yogi.
    Some of Andy's sayings are priceless.And there is no video of this, a pity.
    I got half way through the transcript when I thought I deserved a Lambs, before to take in the rest. Like a performance at the Art and Culture, with Buddy Whathisname, you need a break, smile to your self, and come back for more.
    But this very serious stuff, and mostly right on, cuts to the chafe, but his style…….Andy unleashed. A must read for all UG readers. No back doors with Andy. Of course he is bit whackie, my opinion, as to climate science.He thinks others are insane not to see it as does. As to his testimony, I rate him 85 %, is than an A?
    On climate change, I think in an hour or so, I could convert him, but maybe not.
    Winston Adams

    • I read all your comments Winston with interest. Good to know your family affairs are going well. Yes saw the 3 young boys from the same school with PD having all experienced similar cancers. Didn't know one was you nephew, but good to see them supporting each other. As for Andy, didn't read any of it, but maybe should, as I rather like his comments, that are right down to earth, and honest, at least in Andys mind, which you have to appreciate, and in muskrat I think he is spot on. So your summary of Andy would be good, especially for a laugh, and the fundamentals of muskrat back then. Thanks, average Joe.

    • On Andy, with sober reflection ( did one Lambs impact my reasoning, imagine if I used weed) this morning, I would reduce his mark to 70 instead of 85, so maybe this is B or B-, so still pretty good. I maybe was too subjective to give him 85%, influence by his style and colorful remarks, and not discounting a few technical matters. I will try and tell his key points later. Maybe the media will cover his remarks?
      As to this column, and a panel of the best and brightest……was not the PUB an opportunity for those to make submissions and a presentations, at least on Muskrat. But apart from official parties, only about 6 presented……..so this is IT? Those our best and brightest? Should there not have been at least 100? Have we so few best and brightest, or they are just not engaged?

  15. What piss-poor, half-assed article write-ups on this VOCM webpage… do they deliberately keep it dumbed down in recognition that statistics indicate that NLers are amongst the most illiterate of Canadians? Or maybe the crowd doing the write-ups at VOCM just don't give a f@#k?

    If I wrote something like that and tried to pass it off as an informative summary, my Grade 8 English teacher would give me an F for woefully incomplete…


    The local CBC is little better, they have about a 6 to 1 ratio of lifestyle fluff compared to anything having a semblance of real journalism to it.

    Ridiculous… I say shut'em all down and put'em out of their misery.

  16. ANDY UNLEASHED (at the PUB rate mitigation hearing, Oct 18), from the transcript:
    1. My name is Andy Wells and I think I represent sanity, but some people might say it's insanity.
    The (power assets) were about 3 and half billion dollars, and 800 million revenue stream, now there adding about 14 billion. I put these number out to the media, and the Telegram. I got jerked around by the Telegram. The media here, right from the get go, is mediocre and in some cases absolutely disgraceful.
    How did we get into this 14 billion dollar mess?
    A good lawyer once said "there is no greater evil than than the conversion of the law to an instrument of plunder." Muskrat Falls has been a great success for the crowd that run this Province Confederation.
    (to be continued)
    Winston Adams

    • One single conversation I had years ago, when I was here doing my review, and I ran into Ed Roberts, and Roberts came over to me and and said "Andy, this Muskrat Falls Project is going to be a disaster", and I said " Yes it is, and you, as a prominent citizen, could speak out". "Couldn't possibly" he said, " our firm is acting".
      And that's the problem with the whole Muskrat Falls Project. This was not about power, this was about the crowd that has run this province since Confederation, in my view, filling their pockets,at great expense to the public, and I think it's disgraceful.

    • But isn't that just one side of the story. No local firm in this province is big enough to piss of nalcor or the provincial govt, and to with stand the fincincial loss. So I follow Ed Roberts logic, or even average joes if he had a law firm. He would be out of business in no time. But the problem is with nalcor, govt. as they are the one and the same, with all the big bucks up to 14$ B. So any law firm should be able to do nalcor govt. work and at the same time speak out on behalf of the general public as Andy was advocating. So the real culprit is still nalcor government. So how would you expect Don Dumphy and his family to get justice if that's the case. Joe blow.

    • ANDY:
      And according to Stan Marshall, the party is not over. In 2016 it was a boondoggle,now 2-3 years late, it's such a great success story, a butterfly instead of a grub, so great they're going to move on to Gull Island. …shows what a fantasy world these people live in.
      But a new generation of actors will play these roles, some of them were at the Inquiry.
      There were 27 lawyers joined to the inqiry, it was a riot. You understand why the economy is in decline.
      But it's not just the lawyers, it's the consultants, bureaucrats, the politicians, the consultant companies, yada yada. And they've had a great field day and I guess they look forward to continuing the party with Gull Island.

    • ANDY:
      The rate mitigation issue, it's a serious problem. A few of us put this data together, we put it out to the press, no interest. We got no coverage…..if somebody was seriously interested in what the hell is going on here,to the costs, with respect to rates and the games that are being played by the players in this sordid dream.
      Point 1: The 70 cent per kwh for MFs power at a project cost of 12.7 billion, and on the New England hub, power is selling at 2-3 cents per kwh, so that is how out of whack this project is.
      Point 2: We were told the project economics was better over time.That is false. The revenue requirement is 726 million in year one, and 2.2 billion in year 50, due to back end loading. And being 2-3 years late it will be 2.58 billion in year 2069. Like a mortgage payment that gets worse over time. We were told by William s and Ball, it gets better, it gets worse.

    • ANDY:
      Next Point: Reliability….we were told at the Inquiry it gets better over time, it will be enhanced. In 2011, Nalcor stated" the Maritime Link is equivalent to a 300MW generator with high availability. 70% of the power in this province is needed on the Avalon,and they, Nalcor says "outages of one month or greater in remote areas are possible". So, has Nalcor asked Emera if they can provide the 300Mw backup for an extended outage of over one month? Nalcor"s response,( and this is the kind of games they are playing): "No, Nalcor has not asked Emera directly if it can supply 300 MW of backup power in the event of an extended outage on the DC LIL"

      And as to capacity from NS to get to the Avalon? Nalcor response: " Please note there are currently no records responsive to your request".
      And this;"With the retirement of the generation on the Avalon, the remaining 230kv networks will not be adequate to supply the peak winter loads with the DC bi-pole our of service". In otherwrds: Rolling blackouts in the event of a prolonged outage(on the DC line). Now this what we can expect after spending 14 billion on the this project.

      So, Nalcor and Emera there, partners on this DC LIL, there's no agreement for the 300 MW. And these characters getting together all the time. You'd think they'd be talking about that stuff. Apparently , no.
      How is that System Planning Dept didn't know there was no transmission capacity into the Avalon? Cliff, Martin, and Harrington testifying that reliability would be enhanced and Dark NL would not have happened.

    • ANDY:
      Another Point: The missing 76 MW of free power from Churchill Falls on the DC LIL, for 50 years. That's how they got to 900 MW for the line: 824 MW from MFs, and 76 MW recall from the Churchill Falls.
      But this recall is committed to economic development in Labrador , for mineral development. Locke's report on the economic value for Nalcor: Alice in Wonderland. It would clearly not be available for here for winter peak consumption.
      So has this 76 MW been costed in as to power rates? Nalcor's response: "There is no public report which is responsive to your request"
      Anther important point: The Bay D' Espoir 3rd line transmission to the Avalon, 176 MW, it was filed then withdrawn. It would have allowed for fuel efficiency, and 22 % of the capacity of MFs 824 Mw(a value now of 1.3 billion).This power now wasted while fuel is being burnt at Holyrood.
      Why didn't Nalcor consider these island hydro run of the river intergrated with wind, and peak capacity expansion of the the Bay D Espoir line, in 2011? Why was it delayed?
      And the savings as compared to MFs…. Big numbers, not pixie dust.

    • Yes Winston, all very true, but much more interesting and colourful to hear Andy presenting in person, for sure. Hope some day books are written with these kind of comments, and at the very beginning of each daily session of the House of Assembly, one member is chosen to read a section from the book, to remind them of their responsibilities, and their actions have consequences for the people they represent and the province and country as a whole says Joe blow.

    • ANDY:
      Another POINT #7
      Conservation and customer power rates:
      Nalcor in 2017, forecast a residential rate of 26.32 cents. The essence too: a 10% reduction in energy demand would increase rates by 8%.
      So, the board has to examine the implication , the relationship of conservation measures and the resultant rate increases, or we face the utility death spiral: as increased conservation happens, there's less consumption. The residential customers got to pick up the costs, that how that works.

    • ANDY:
      Stan Marshall, at the Inquiry,July 2, said "The best way to deal with uncertainty over MFs is to keep Holyrood operating for a few years".
      Now, System Reliability and the Closure of Holyrood Mitigation:The Inquiry must document the additional cost to taxpayers every year that Holyrood Generation remains open.
      I notice Nfld Power, now there're waffling on that now. Apparently Alteen said it may not be necessary. I think Nfld Power, there's something going on here behind the scenes, that we don't know anything about. And, I think the fact that Nfld Power wants to get back into action and buy some interest in the MFs project tells me: there's stuff going on behind the scenes, that we, the unwashed, don't know any thing about.
      But we need ….Marshall should explain, first of all, how concerns about reliability will disappear after a few years and Holyrood is closed. As I said earlier: a prolonged outage is a permanent concern. The DC LIL is there, it's going to operate, supposedly, we don't know. But there's going to be a need, if you are going to have a reliable system, and avoid prolonged blackouts, your're going to have a Holyrood…..or equivalent.
      Reliability and drastic consequences of a prolonged outage, and those two dirty words; fossil fuel backup, is required on the Avalon: Holyrood, …or equivalent.

      And that begs the question: What was the rationale for Muskrat Falls and the expenditure of 14 billion , if Holyrood , or equivalent is necessary?
      I'm actually not doing too bad with respecting time, Madam Chair.

    • ANDY:
      What's the value of Muskrat Falls?
      I'll tell you.It's the value to replace Holyrood. If that costs 1 to 1.5 billion, that's all MFs is worth. I think it's actually worthless, but as avoided cost sort of thing, it is what it would cost to replace Holyrood.
      Nothing illustrates the absurdity of the MFs project then the statement of Derrick Sturge at the Inquiry, that he was out of the loop on MFs cost estimate. Sturge is vice president of finance, and responsible for the Federal Loan Guarantee.
      Then you got the statement of Gilbert Bennett, that the cost was deliberate inflated.
      Then, Dunderdale;I call it The Flat-Screen Application now , because she thought we needed MFs because all Nflders were buying flat -screen TVs.
      Then they shoves in 600 million for scrubbers for Holyrood which was not necessary.

      And, I think it was the Consumer Advocate, maybe I'm wrong Mr Browne,saying "Nalcor needs more regulation"
      It's like telling an alcoholic "B'y, you can't get your drinking under control."
      We got 10 organizations, ten structures examining Nalcor now, we need 11 to keep them off the booze and keep you on the wagon.

      This is the solution to he problem caused by government. This the mentality in this Province, and this is what has taken our economy down.

      Item 11: Astaldi…disqualified in British Columbia, they never checked out why…..it gives me no confidence that this crowd can manage the Gull Island Project.

    • Coming up : Andy's #12 Point. 12 I suppose is an important number: we have 12 months in a year, the 12 days of Christmas, the 12 Apostles, etc, and Andy's # 12 pulls no punches. Wonder if PENG2 will be forced to comment on #12.
      Why have I taken the trouble to type up all this instead of providing a link? Because Andy's words, for the most part , should be required reading, published in the media. Maybe 20 % will follow a link, I think many more here on UG will read Andy's take, and find he says what other fear to say, and if not the whole truth, it is a lot of truth. These hearings should have been webcast,like the Inquiry, but were not.

    • ANDY:
      ITEM 12: "The Stan Marshall Boondoggle": Too Little Too Late

      The Hypocrisy of Stan Marshall and Peter Alteen, these people long before they they spoke that this project was a Boondoggle. Marshall said in 2015 or 2016 that the project was a boondoggle. He knew right from the start that this was the case. I happened to be at meetings some where Fortis executives told me that they thought it was a crazy project and if Stan Marshall had a new story in 2011, 2012, so did NLP and so did Peter Alteen and so did Earl Ludlow, and if they had spoken then and if they had supported our exentsion of time to do a proper job, I think if the president of Fortis had taken a public stand against the project, it probably would have stopped the project immediately, It certainly would have precipitated a badly needed public debate on the project. Instead Fortis, like all other ogranizations, which should have called for robust public debate on this matter were silent.
      Now corporate self-interest took precedence over manifest concerns regarding the cost implications of Muskrat Falls.
      Everybody was acting, not just the lawyers, everybody, and I believe Nfld POwer , 268,000 customers, 12,000 kilometers of transmission and distribution lines, they had no questions concerning rate mitigation at this hearing, no questions! You can't make it up, can't make it up!
      Now here comes Mr Bennett: "Costs estimates for Muskrat falls were deliberately low balling helping Emera with its application to the Nova Scotia utility regulator". Well it's no wonder that Emera's shares went up 54 % in one year. No wonder, they 're going to be picking our pockets because of this project.
      We have been told by Mr Marshall, it's two or three years behind schedule. I understand there's a contractual requirement to pay 20% of the rate of capacity of the 824 MW annually to Emera in the event of delays in construction, what are the penalties going to be?
      I guess Nfld Power wants to get a piece of the action now, they want to take out, I suppose Nfld Hydro or whoever it is, the LIL Corporation and insert themselves in there because Emera is guaranteed an 8.5 % rate of return and that kicks in at a certain date. So Emera is guaranteed whatever Nfld Power gets and currently is 8.5 %. So this guaranteed by Nalcor and must be paid whether the DC LIL is operating or not. These costs must be included in any mitigating process.
      This extra 100 MW Marshall said we would get, will probably be zero, especially in the winter months. Nalcor , tell us what is your expected increase in capacity? Will we have it in winter?
      Ball said no increase in taxes or rates to pay for Muskrat. Well, good luck with that.
      I calculated the numbers when I was still up before Parsons, and was escorted out.
      A 30 to 40 % increase in rates is going to collapse the economy of Nfld and none of these numbers have been discuss here. People are concerned about paying their bills and I look at what's going on here. This is Alice in Wonderland.
      I implore the board members because everyone here, sitting down here, like the project right from the start, have been kept in the dark .
      We need a full and honest accounting of the amount of revenue.
      The loss of export sales impacted by this 76 MWs, less power to sell.
      Listen to the nonsense and the BS coming from the lawyers arguing trival points, pixie economics. Holyrood standby operations have to be costed and included in mitigation. And the cost of replacing Holyrood is clearly necessary, so we the customers know what we're dealing with. here., the capacity for winter peak, are we going to have any power from MFs during winter months?
      The cost implication of demand elasticity. Everyone is getting excited about heat pumps and electric cars….the idea that electric cars can have a significant contribution…I think it shows just what a fantasy world we're living in in this province. My guess is the revenue to mitigate will be closer to 1 billion or more.


    • ANDY:
      So Ball got a problem. The enormity of it….and they discuss pixie dust economics,much on trivial items. The issues here are hundreds of million of dollars.
      I think the customers of Nfld have been poorly served by these proceedings and I think it is shameful.

      Nfld Power had no questions on Hydro when ALteen was out saying, bravely saying, when it was okay to do o, that this was a political project. Where were they back when in the day when we were trying to do a proper review? Where when they then? They were nowhere. Where was the Consumer Advocate then? He was nowhere.

      I'll conclude.
      This whole project was not conceived as as an electricity project, it was a make-rich scheme for the elite of Nfld , the political elite, the bureauratic elite, the well connected, the captains of industry, that endorsed it, and the hangers-on, in the Conservative and Liberal Party, the Board of Trade, all the rest of them. It was sickening to watch.
      My story about Ed Roberts, I could cite other examples. People who knew what was going on, said nothing, because they knew they were going to make a pile of cash.
      Muskrat Falls. It was very successful for the small elite who run this province. And it will leave a lot of Nflders facing sever energy costs and energy poverty.
      Thanks you.

  17. Truly, what goes around comes around… as with NARR and it's proposed U.S. garbage-fueled incinerator for Long Harbour, global industrialists are once again attempting to sucker the naive economically-distressed bumpkins into using the remote, pristine setting of their communities as dumping grounds for the colossal amounts of waste plastic, garbage and generally nasty toxins generated in the crystal cities of these industrialists' urban empires… this time, rather than "incineration", the flavour-of-the-month term being used is "gasification"…


    If the seemingly dodgy reputation of this "World Synergy Power" outfit isn't enough to get the provincial government to say "thanks, but no thinks", then maybe it's time to re-mobilize the SNAGG veterans…



    • Burning toxic trash that other countries don't want is evil. It will increase our death rate. We are not Africa or rural China. The Philippines was right to send Canadian trash back to Canada.

      Nevertheless, incineration to produce steam for electricity is a good thing. We should have a state of the art incinerator / generator for Robin Hood bay. We could use the hot water for district heating, reduce the waste stream and generate power for the city.

      We might have to collect garbage differently and set up some sort of automatic sorting so that only the best garbage is burned. At the dump I often see a lot of wood, construction waste and cardboard that would make good fuel. Maybe separate compostable, metals, cleaner burnables and nasties (hard to burn clean stuff) and treat each stream differently.

    • That is not surprising. Heat pumps will cut 40% off what could be a huge bill and provide air conditioning in the summer.

      Heat pumps will be like LED lights. Subsidies are not needed because people will buy then anyway for many good reasons. Heat Pumps are getting better too – cold climate models, and eventually CO2 types that can also make domestic hot water..

      Looks like a large elastic demand. People will reduce demand as faster than the rates go up.

  18. Andy: What's the value of Muskrat Falls? I'll tell you. It's the value to replace Holyrood. If that costs 1 to 1.5 billion, that's all MFs is worth.

    That about sums it up. So we wasted 11 billion on a problematic DC line with unreliable software, no spare parts for the DC/AC inverters and an overpriced dam with low output.

    We could have gone for the natural gas option at Holyrood (Dr. Bruneau's magnificent contribution to possible options) and rebuilt the plant.

    Another great alternate would have been waste incineration and power generation, burning part of the Robin-hood Bay waste stream.

    Everything that we dump burns slowly, turning into carbon dioxide and ash. Bacteria and Fungi do this very slowly over many decades. Fire does it in minutes. The only problem I see with burning garbage is that it needs high tech burners, gassification stages, exhaust scrubbers and a high quality input waste stream, otherwise could be smelly and potentially toxic. However, places like Springdale used to have an incinerator at the end of town and it was tolerated by the community. It was also a nice place to shoot rats with at 22, a great sport for kids. (how times have changed).

  19. St Hohn's East: Jack Harris in the lead with 50 votes
    The Green with 1 vote, that was me.My wife voted Liberal, saying she knew nothing of the Green candidate here.

    I told my wife and her friend, I would vote Green regardless who it was, as long as the candidate did't have a criminal record.
    In Switzerland today the leading party was 26 %, Green 13 %, and Liberal Green 7 %.
    My wife and friend said they didn't like Elizabeth May. I asked why and they could give no reason. I said maybe she is too Green. They said maybe that's it. I suggested maybe it might be because she isn't attractive enough, that maybe women are their own enemy too, as so few in politics. My wife yes yes women are their own worse enemies.. I was treading on thin ice,and pressed no more, so left it there.

  20. Well, Little Alfie, aka THE DIGGER, is livid. If Trudeau did not commit obstruction of justice, the Pope is not Catholic he says.
    Even Francis is less Catholic that some past Popes I say, more inline with truth and justice than many past popes. Francis; in the forefront to protect our climate and other species from damage.
    Alphie, meanwhile sees nothing wrong with Trumpie as to corrupt, abuse of power etc, and promoting more coal burning and to increase CO2 emissions. Trump an idle for Alf.
    Alphie gone mad over the country going more Green. Doom and gloom he predicts, no New Green Deal can he see to pick up the slack of reduced fossil fuel use.
    My heart goes out for poor Alphie.
    If only he promoted truth in science instead of junk science on the climate issue. Alphie and Andy, a pair, bookends on Canada for promoting junk science.
    Greta Thunberg's knowledge on climate science is light years ahead, but just says "follow the science". I can only add : follow the peer reviewed science, to eliminate the junk science.
    Winston Adams

  21. Just listened to Paddy Daly on VOCM; he has seen the Light, and it's color is Green. He says the election results shows how the tea leaves are read, some 70% of Canadians see climate change as a big concern, and Alberta and Nfld need take notice.
    Yes, Paddy is moving with the times, head out of the sand. Him and Bruno will soon be pals? A step to far! Bruno now seems a lighter shade of green than Paddy. How times change. Both concerned with their public persona, yes, lets the chips falls, who is greenwashing and which is realy more green.
    Does Paddy have a heat pump? Is he going EV? What does Jack Harris drive?

    • This is the same Paddy who was a fan of MF until it hit $8b? Or at least that's his version of events. He blows with the wind and will lead just about any parade.

      Daly talks and talks a good game but speaks in generalities. For example one of his solutions for our debt "crisis" is to reduce the size of the public sector. Now he won't say by how many and who should lose their job or perhaps the number of teachers should be reduced by 20% or have wages rolled back. No nothing concrete like that lest he face the wrath of the unions or even worse his teacher wife.

      All hat and no cattle is the expression.

    • Reducing the public sector means firing people. While there are hundreds of useless executives whose elimination could save perhaps 50 million a year, it is just a drop in the bucket.

      Downsizing the non-executive isn't a solution either — we actually need people to drive snow plows, provide nursing care and teach classes.

      The real solution is a combination of things to reduce expenditures as much as possible – and no more than possible. A good first step is to define essential services and present it to the public, along with the reasoning.

      For example: 1 teacher for 40 children. Roads cleared of snow within 24 hours after a storm. Ferry service to islands at least twice a week. Emergency room with sufficient staff to ensure that nobody dies while waiting 24 hours in a hallway.

      Unessential: street lights, lines on roads, chlorinated water (boil you own), sewer (dump it in the ocean, or build your own septic), garbage collection (burn it), the NLC, government regulators, July and Newyear fire works, information packages that arrive in the mail etc.

      Some of this is extreme and off-the-cuff, but I really think we need a public discussion as to what is essential and what does it cost. If there isn't enough money to pay for our wants, then we have a big problem.

    • Couldn't agree more. You mentioned student/teacher ratio for example. The NTA says there are about 5000 members yet only about 75,000 kids in school. That's one teacher for every 15 kids. Is this feasible? We used to manage public services with much less money and resources. This is a fact.

  22. I am shocked. Paddy Daly of VOCM has never been to Nain. Has he been to any of the Labrador coast?
    It is essential he go there at once. Go via the coastal boat , now at this time of year. See the towns, their plight. How can someone, a key figure of VOCM, not know about the Labrador coast first hand.
    A go fund me if necessary to pay his costs, I will donate 500.
    A caller, a seaman of 40 years, a navigator or something, knows ships and the coast and the people inside out,laid it out for Paddy, just now. Paddy had no argument. When Paddy has no argument, it is crystal clear.
    Labrador a jewel, the wealth it produces, and these people don't complain, yet horror conditions, and getting worse.
    Paddy must go there, and report back, or report live from each leg of his journey.A must, Paddy must go.How can VOCM be representative of NL if Paddy don't know coastal Labrador. Impossible.
    Winston Adams

    • Anon@18;55;
      Yes, some indication of cracking there, that I offer Paddy 500, and suggest a GO FUND ME for him to travel there.
      As mentioned, Steels who owned VOCM had fishing lodges near Hopedale, catering to the rich and powerful and famous, no charge to them,and would fly in by helicopter. Whether that was prior to Paddy getting to VOCM, or whether he knows the Labrador coast via flyover? But the Steele book, The Commander, says they sold the radio business, about 100 stations, for, I think, 508 million.
      The sale to present owners being STINGRAY, who must not be cash short.
      So, yes, seems I am cracking some to suggest Stingray needs my 500 or a GO Fund ME to get Paddy Daly on a coastal boat to the Labrador coast, in support of his job and to serve the public.
      Now if they cannot afford that expense, then I am ready to assist Paddy on a personal level, if he was interested. I am sure it would be an eye opener, having myself done it in October.
      Winston Adams

  23. https://vocm.com/2019/10/22/premier-reacts-to-election-results/

    Good luck with rate mitigation and the minority federal liberals, Dwight. Not a word in the local written federal liberal platform. I think I will investigate the cost of a move out of the province before Muskrat is completed and property values plummet. Glad I did not spend money on heat pumps. The ship may hit the sand before the warranty would have been up.
    I guess the federal liberals will now be able with the help of the Block Quebecois to obstruct justice again and give SNC-Lavalin their deferred prosecution agreement and bail their sorry asses out. Canadian and Quebec values affirmed!!
    Rayboult-Wilson will have won the battle but lost the war.

    • A heat pump will save you money now and you'll get it back when you sell, and if not, then it will certainly make your house easier to sell.

      I hadn't thought about the Block / Liberals being great news for SNC criminals, but I suspect you are right. SNC will not be prosecuted, nor will Mr Williams. People and Corporations with billions are well above the law.

    • No coalition for young Trudeau but the best of both worlds with BQ alliance for PQ and the SNC-Lavalin crooks and NDP alliance for the rest except for Alberta where its equalization paying resources will go south to the USA for a song because we don't like pipelines here in Canada, Butst(no pun) we are heavy carbon tax payers. Wish us luck.

    • Perhaps young Trudeau, like his old man before him should stop trying to F the west and try uniting this great country from coast to coast to coast for a greater purpose than partisan politics and supporting corrupt friends. Perhaps then people will see the value of Canadian values. Wishful thinking perhaps? Eh Bye.

  24. And now here we have the supreme gutless wonder of them all and government appointed presider over extirpated Labrador caribou herds…


    … an invertebrate who hasn't the nads to speak to the public on the horrendous ichtyological catastrophe that OCCURRED ON HIS WATCH at that bloody salmon death ranch in Fortune Bay…


    Recall that Byrne once claimed that he majored in biology at university to try to justify inviting himself into a high-level meeting of DFO scientists in an audaciously tacky but ultimately unsuccessful attempt to showboat and promote himself as the Messiah-Become-Saviour of genus Salmo salar… no doubt the same as he likens himself with what's left of fast-declining Labrador caribou herds on his devil-may-care watch…



    Gerry Byrne… academically trained as a biologist, politically trained as a colossal bullshitter.

  25. Tesla EVs finally turning the corner :
    Loss first 6 months was 1.1 billion, this quarter 143 million profit, on sales of 6.3 billion.
    Loss so far 5.5 billion. , but stock drop of 22 % this year recovered 17%.
    Expected stock price may have seen its best days, as very high valuation.

    Andy totally dismissed EVs of value for Nfld, or heat pumps, best is fossil fuel he says.
    Cut back on oil and we go back to the 18 th century he said this morning on VOCM.
    Andy both sane and insane, as he suggested he might be viewed, at the Inquiry.So I rate him a A on parts, an F on parts , overall a B.
    Even most oil companies admit to the climate change problem caused by CO2 from fuel, and Andy Wells go against the oil companies. Biggest hoax ever he says.
    Bruno not keeping up on Tesla?

  26. ExxonMobil on trial today in NY
    Evidence shows that in 1982 their scientists knew and very accurately and predicted a rise in CO2 to 415 ppm by 2013, and would heat the planet by 1 degree C.
    Andy Wells had great timing today on VOCM with Fred Hutton , to claim the big hoax. Their scientist Hoffert testified had admitted to the charts they had and was displayed , and their good science capability!
    Was Andy and Young Alfie watching this trial?
    Winston Adams

  27. Politics that bite?
    Did Police Chief pressure Jenny Wright to resign?
    Does a bear shit in the woods? Is the Pope Catholic?
    Did Trumpie Pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden?
    Boland say he was most concerned about public confidence in police.But probably he should not have signed the letter.
    Wright had tweeted about rooting out abusers in their ranks, and referenced the RCMP. Boland says this was troublesome to the police officers. Studies in the USA show police offices abuse their wives 15 % more often, the Telegram reports.
    Strike 1, Boland should not have have signed the letter.
    Strike 2, First Light wanted to attend his press conference, but was denied, says Stacey House. They have broken off from the the Minister's Conference.
    Parson says the Justice Dept don't direct the police .
    Scuttlebutt says Boland got his job because he plays hockey with Justice Minister Parsons. Maybe that is a joke?
    Boland and others should be able to turn this around, but will they, or dig in?
    Winston Adams .

  28. Another Newfie Joke?
    NL Environmental Industry Association(NEIA) is challenging business to help it offset 5000 tons of of the provinces GHG emissions. Doesn't say if their own business is the primary target or other businesses? They have a director of Marketing and Communications, so is this greenwashing?
    NEIA, I suspect include many major polluters. They have 200 members, and promotes clean technology it says. Why did they not present at the PUB on mitigation?
    Each Canadian produces 20 tons, the highest of the G20 nations, and 3 times the average G20.
    Fortis alone produces 15 million tons a year, and Exoon Mobil has emitted a total of 42 billion tons over the years, if my figures are correct.
    5000 tons reduction via purchasing carbon credits is equal to what 250 Nflders emits of our 500,000 population.
    It is 1/3000, a very small fraction of what Fortis produces.
    Offshore and much of our industry has exemptions form the carbon tax, aimed a the average consumer of gas.
    So, is this not a big Newfie Joke?
    Winston Adams

    • The Australian airline last week had a "successful" test flight , non stop from London , England to Sydney , Australia. 19 hrs, with 1 hr fuel to spare.
      The Boeing Dreamliner has a capacity of 330 people. Emissions per person is important, so more people on a flight is more efficient, the usual approach.
      This flight had to reduce luggage, and other stuff, and also only 50 passengers, to allow more fuel.
      How much fuel? 700 barrels, 100 tons. One pound of fuel burned produces 3 pounds of CO2. so 300 tons of CO2 for this one flight.
      So, this type of daily flight would produce, every two weeks an equal to the 5000 tons saved in Nfld by NEIA in a year. That is the mindset of the airline industry and NEIA
      Alcock and Browne barely climbed over the trees and hills of St John's in 1919, so loaded down with fuel, to achieve the first crossing.
      In 2019, 100 years later, it is the same mindset. For the rich , it can save 3 hours. Andy and Young Alfie must love all this modern approach for fuel burning?
      Winston Adams

  29. Breaking News… The Hump and Kimmy love affair is on and off….but on again right now. Kimmy has stated that he and the Hump have a special relationship, and wants the Pomp out of the way, as he is just a poisonous thorn between them. He wants Hump towers built all over North Korea, and vows to protect them with his necular warheads. He will protect them against the Dems especially Nancy and Shifty. Strange things happening in the latter days, stranger than the Hump looking skywards and proclaiming he is the chosen one to defeat the Chineese in all wars including an economic one. Buy no Chineese gifts he says. Will be a lot of disappointed American children this Christmas as Santa will not be able to fill his sack at Walmart. The hump tells the grand old party to attack the impeachment offices with cell phones, pizza and chicken nuggets. And as great defenders of the demograge respond on mass as he changes American from a democracy to an elected dicitatorship, step by step. What once was the greatest democracy on earth is fast becoming a one man stable genius diticatorship with the full support of the GOP. Yes, invites all dicitator ships to get political dirt on his political opponents, and his lawyers tells the judge in court that if indeed the Hump shot a baby in Times Square he could not be charged. So all that the demagoguery proclaimed a few years ago is coming to pass, and there is not a dam thing that civilization can do about it, just review another demagoguery, Hitler, until he had run his course says Joe blow. And just ask the digger.

    • Trumpie evolved evolved on land, meanwhile in these Latter Days, in the deep, there is other wonders. We know of the 2.6 million salmon die off here, whether from disease or hot water, or a bit of both. And we know of the green crab invasion on the south coast, damaging eel grass is it, and bad for lobster and other species.
      Now I read about North America west coast: the greatest die off known, of star fish and then sea urchins taking over and eating all the kelp, and a barren waste on the bottom. Kelp takes in carbon dioxide and stores carbon, like trees. On one reef alone there is 350 million sea urchins. They run out of kelp to eat and sort of hibernate for years and don't die, but of no value, The star fish used to eat the sea urchins to keep them under control and they got a virus or that along with warm water , and the star fish go to mush, 95 % die off. This started in 2013, and from Mexico to Alaska.
      Never knew until today. Just one reef , if they tried to remove them it would take 20 years they say. Holy Moly……what science is Andy and Alfie reading, to miss these things. Every 2nd day there is some major new finding of extinction happening , or verge of extinction, little making the news. What is news is the HUMP able to shoot a baby and not be charged, especially a colored baby. What would Jefferson, Adams, Washington think of these events? Maybe not much as 2 out of 3 were slave owners.
      Did you read about the 20 schooners built in Nfld for the slave trade, Joe? Perhaps the last slave in Nfld was in my home town in the early 1920s. I did the research in the 1980s. The Empire was slow to enforce the law in Nfld it seems.
      Also just learned this week that the ocean produces 50% of the worlds oxygen….I thought most all was from trees etc on land.
      Make no wonder the salmon suffocated, they are gasping anyway , without the water too warm.
      Can Gerry Bryne fix this oxygen, green crab, and sea urchin problems? Maybe pour some oil on the critters? Maybe the return current of the DC line via the salt water return path will help the cod and the capelin to multiply, to counter the cold Labrador current? Gilbert is looking into that I hear, a benefit for mitigation.

  30. Just wonder, today , I think , is the last day to file a comment with the PUB about the rate mitigation.
    Any UG readers emailing a comment? The email address is on the PUB website.
    I am intending to to so. Surely many of this blog has some comment to send? Or maybe not?

    Winston Adams

  31. Well, I write about the Hump, in American politics, so may as well write about Canadian politics, and mention the Princline, as the digger has named him, and especially after the election and how we have drawn the ira of Albertians. Never thought that would happen!!! Well guess the main point is we are no more Liberals in a Calgary Hat. No siree, we are the cause of climate change, carbon tax, pipelines on hold, the end of the West good times and the election of the Princline, all since Tuesday's election. Didn't know we were so powerful and had so much clout with our tiny 7 seats, but we are the reason for all that ails the West. We should be sticking our chess out and proclaiming that we are just 2 seats from a conservative majority govt, (them 2 dam NDPers) here in this province. No we are all red, father, and father before us, never saw a blue, except for Moores, Peckford, and Wiliams major majorities the ruled the province for years. Did Alberta ever have a red govt ? No never, and never will. Or did they elect one red (or maybe one) to the parliament of Canada. So how come they are entitled to their vote but we are not allowed to vote without their permission. The hump calls any Republicans that don't support him, human scum. Are we now human scum, that voted blue, but did not get a majority. Yes, if we had not elected the Princline, we need all of Ontario and some of Quebec to help us, then Scheer would have been elected, and the west would have hugged us. The pipeline through QC would have been a done deal, no more carbon tax, no more climate change, wow, never knew we, as a half a million souls, and 7 tiny seats were so powerful. I wonder would they have solved the muskrat boondoggle for us ask Joe blow. Offshore oil will be pumping for years to come.

  32. Wondered if I would mange it, but just emailed 7 pages comments to the Rate Mitigation review. If Andy can flap his lips for over 30 minutes, and the Scallywags of Nfld power can create a panels of deceit, why can't I have my 2 cents, 7 page , worth for facts and rants.
    As there are may complainers here on this blog, including me, make it official.Send a few words I suggest before closing time. Even PENG2 I will look for to comment, and come out of hiding. Or hold your piece as rates skyrocket.

  33. Roger Grimmes, now on the offshore board, a retired Liberal needing top up to get his UIC claim, like Dennis Browne as CA as a part time job.
    Roger on NTV saying not to ignore the climate change protesters, even his 8 year old granddaughter asking about this.
    Roger says is it a question of offshore development or saving the planet. Roger says we can do both.
    Helloooooooooooo. 80 5 of known reserves have to stay in the ground Roger. So do the Saudis and Russia etc keep 90 % of their's in the ground so that we can take out more by doubling production?
    Explain that logic. Do you deny that 80 % must stay in the ground.
    Granted, if all tar sands stay in the ground, than less than 80 % of others stay in the ground.
    So explain that to Alberta: your dirty oil must be on the chopping block first.

    Winston Adams.

    Has anyone seen and read the comment , a 59 page report on rate mitigation by a retired physicist and electrical engineer,from Quebec, who worked in the nuclear energy filed for 36 years(but this is not about nuclear power, but hydro power, which seems he is rather expert in) posted under the comments section of the PUB, initials RBB, an initial item in Jan, the the actual professional report in March
    I consider this an extremely important document.
    I assume Des Sullivan, Dave Vardy, Ron Penny are familiar? Can you advise?
    Was anyone at the hearings questioned about this report, for their point of view, or gone unnoticed?
    Has Maurice Adams, PENG2, AJ, others seen and read this, or like me missed this.? No media mentioned it?
    A reasonable plan for substantial MFs debt relief, and add to Labrador hydro asset value post 2041? Plan fo r HQ to pay 300 million a year, for next 2O years, to Nalcor for future energy from CFs, etc
    I am very impressed…, too bad I had not seen this before filing my comments yesterday, which are minor, mostly on CDM/electricification, as to this 59 page report, did Andy Wells know of this?
    Also incorporated many technical concerns, including North Sour risk.
    This report needs a formal response, I suggest, on the UG blog, and surprised not done before now.
    Winston Adams

    • i doubt it, as this report is not overly optistimic on Gull, suggesting given surplus hydro in Quebec and low gas prices, Gull time frame would be 10-15 years away, a 10 billion cost, but 4 times the power of Muskrat, but that wind too is competitive with Gull.
      Also that more turbines can be added to Upper Churchill, 2 or 3 more each about 500MW each, increasing peak from 5400MW to almost 7000 MW, this being economic before Gull.
      When did we ever hear of this before.
      This report needs to be condensed to 2 -3 pages for UG readers, it is an excellent report.

    • May be not as much about power development in Labrador but Stan's comments at the PUB Muskrat rate mitigation hearings were more to do with justification of the excessive overstaffing and excessive pay scales at Nalcor.

    • Winston, your comment @ 00:21 may be news breaking, but as you say no one commenting, or maybe not aware of it, or maybe not news worthy. But if it is am sure some of those you mentioned will pick it up and analize it. So that works out to 6$ billion over 20 years paid by HQ to nalcor or whom ever. But what do they want in return????? Ownership of the UC!!! Guess that's the 2041 billion dollar question. But if news worthy, no doubt we should hear about it, even from Stan and govt., but especially by some of those you mentioned, including PlanetNL. Average Joe.

    • Thanks anon, this is indeed the same person, the Telegram gives his name as Robert Beaudoin of Brassard Que, a retired engineer, and Google confirms a long career with Atomic Energy of Canada. Not sure why the PUB did not give his name if the Telegram did.
      So the Telegram item is a brief description, his report puts meat on the bones, and much historical, and technical context as well.
      So why no public follow up on this here?
      AJ asks if they want ownership of CFs in return. Hardly, in fact suggests majority ownership should remain with Nfld.
      UG readers might recall Heracles saying the MFs debt could be exchanged for CFs asset as equal value. I stated that CFs was much to valuable to lose for this boondoggle, and as I and thousands of Nflders worked there, and waited so long to see value from it, it would be foolish to barter it away for "Danny's wet dream" as Bruno calls Muskrat Falls.
      So Beaudoin sees it as I do, and many others I suspect, that CFs is the Golden Goose.
      On my walk with my wife today I asked " Was there a Golden Goose story, or just a goose that laid a golden egg". She thought there was such a Golden Goose, and I just researched it, Grimms children stories form 1905.
      So I can beat Bruno to the line, call me "Simpleton", to say CFs is indded the Golden Goose, as this engineer too suggests, and if wisely used, can be the most effective way to slay the musky stench of Muskrat.
      The proposal on the PUB site, on my first read, seems sound and fair, and says should be negociated. Further reading may result in questions, and certainly someone like Vardy should review it ,if not already done.
      I would say 95 % of Nflders don't realize the vast value of CFs to Nfld , now just 21 years away,(already 8 years since MFs was sanctioned) and grows more valuable every year.
      And CFs never cost Nflders a dime of investment. Like a great inheritance coming our way.
      Big enough to absorb the collosal failure of Muskrat if properly used in conjunction with HQ, who still owns 1/3, and knows it value too.
      Man, how can this proposal not be debated here. Or I jump the gun and missing something, that I invite others will tell me?
      Winston Adams

    • I find this win – win proposal very interresting (HQ selling power to Nalcor early on, and in return HQ commits to buy X amount at X price from UC – past 2041).

      That's a quite clever "face saving" way to avoid an asset fire sale (like losing UC).

      However we all understand that HQ won't be inclined to sell any power during the winter peak.

      But worst, I'm worrying about the LIL reliability. What are the last news on that front?

    • Seems the proposal anticipated the line would be ready prior to MFs generation, and so get significant CFs power for a year or two, and then once MFs operated less CFs power to NFLD, but the main proposal is HQ pay now for power delivered form CFs post 2041, but at fair rates of value at that time frame.
      The non operation of the DC line has largely voided the first part, which is less significant.
      Of interest, the proposal puts the DC reliability at only 95 % whereas relibility of the grid here should be 99.97 % . I think 95 % is a reasonable number and why this project should never have proceeded. It guarantees a need for thermal, or equivalent back up on the Avalon. If thermal, it may mean not signifiant fuel burn, but significant capacity of 500 MW.
      The proposal is like the cartoon character, Wimpy? who says "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for an hamburger today" but in reverse. HQ would gladly pay Naclor now for power from CFs post 2041, as it can be cheaper than new generation by HQ, which they would otherwise plan for by 2030 or sooner,( if they can use up their their existing surplus), CFs is more attractive to them, and of course they own 1/3 anyway, so partners regardless.
      Is this not a win win possability, and an avenue for even more and better cooperation for PQ and NL?
      The devil is in the details………they are both economic and technical.
      This report is very impressive to me, as I said, one quick read, deserving to be condensed for UG readers.

  35. Rate mitigation or not, the cost of living is going up big time. PEGNL just increased its fees. Their rationale: "PEGNL licensing fees were last increased 13 years ago (in 2006). Since that time, inflation, as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), has increased 28%."

    The CPI is largely a political figure, purposely manipulated because it is linked to pension adjustments (if you are lucky) and many other things. The real figure is much worse (higher).

    NAPE represents the public sector and some private business. They are stating that the status quo (zero increases most years) is not acceptable. We have the levy, 15% tax on electricity and fee increases everywhere — so everyone is worse off and the majority struggle to make ends meet.

    Also noteworthy is that a recent poling of union shop stewards indicates that the #1 complaint is low wages and #2 is job security. Job security (lack thereof) is due to public private partnerships, full time work becoming multiple part-time jobs without benefits and consolidations. The current attrition policy is taking its toll too – people are not being replaced and those remaining are forced to work long hours. Overworking seems to be a huge problem in health care. Since the median age of Newfoundlanders is 47, this is very bad news because the need for medical services is skyrocking.

    The intersection of a poor aging population that is increasingly reliant upon The Gathering Place for food and medical care, Kids Eat Smart (breakfast at school, sometimes there is no food at home so this is all they have), thrift stores, Dafodil place for accommodation during cancer treatment etc. with a sudden reduction in services or tax/fee increases to pay for Muskrat Falls — is an ugly mess.

  36. Young Alfie, says he awakes today on Vancover Island, in a good mood, and opens his ipad to read 5 pieces of CBC stuff: all politics, and don't like any of it, and ends in a bad mood ready to go back to bed and see what the next morning brings. The Digger is so jealous of Justin, he will sulk for months. Lets face it,Justin's handsome face, most all from his mother's side, has much sex appeal, and compensates for his inferior intellect compared to his old man. Justin, not a bad actor too, can shed a tear when called for. So far from stupid to get reelected PM.
    Now me, on this rocky island, from where too sprung Young Alfie, I awoke to first look at the sea, and Quilty's Cove, and assess the sky,optistmic for a little sun. I see what younger people, and those less observant, would not see. The high tide again 6-8 inches higher than when I was a boy, obvious from the rocks what used to be dry, but now regular under water.
    10 years ago this was a rare sight, perhaps at occasional very high tides. Now routine. I wonder: how can Alfie, and other so called intelligent people, deny what is happening on a vast scale as to Arctic sea ice loss, and at the Poles , and glaciers, and the fishery failures and on and on, vast fires, recently in the Amazon, now again in California.
    I read too today: about 690 new private jets increase over last year, and 7600 more for delivery over the next 10 years. Bill Gates, due to his private jet, some 77 trips in one year, has a carbon footprint of 1600 tons of CO2. The average Canadian 20 tons. The average world citizen 5 tons. Celebs buying 20% of the private jets, most others for corporations. Our sustainability going to hell in a hand basket,but….. not to worry, drill baby drill, fossil fuel is not the cause, and a good thing for our climate
    .Only is Sweden is flyshaming happening with a decrease of 5 %.
    I haven't seen the Canadian Rockies, but if I did, I want the train for the scenery, as well as low emissions.
    I read today that our Torngat Mountains is 4 billions years old, so too much of Nfld nearly that old. The Canadian Rockies only 100 million. Some changes can occur fast, with tipping points, in decades.
    From CBC here today I read that Makovok, Labrador coast, is trying solar panels to try and save fuel oil. And Nfld rural towns worried about raw sewage discharge into the sea, the Nfld govn never see this as a priority, now a 600 million expense they can't afford. Avoidance of regulations is the game now. They are counting on a declining population to reduce the discharge to avoid action. Now there's INNOVATION, maybe an idea form the EMERA Innovation Centre. The back up plan B is to split a single discharge pipe to 2 pipe, to circumvent the flow limits on a single pipe. So clever, that it seem to satisfy the feds!
    Alfie calls CBC east coast propaganda. Alpie is propaganda for Trumpie and far right rednecks. Why does he live in the Green Elizabeth May territory? Can Robert Holmes lasso him and give him a shake on the climate emergency and climate science, the real peer reviews stuff?
    Winston Adams

    • Anon:
      1. Cold sweats every morning? No, but on occasion in the past,yes, due to either a 4 cm cluster of pavapelvic cysts on my left kidney, or inappropriate medication, or a combination of these as to left flank pain that radiates up and down. No firm diagnosis, but severe left side pain for about 6 years. The rare events of cold sweats seems to be due to addictive nature of the doctor prescribed medication, and if the med is gently tapered, there are no cold sweats, none for a year, I guess. I thought Bruno had better insight to a good weed that might have some benefit, but have been advised by a doctor weed would not be beneficial.
      What is your experience with cold sweats?
      2. You say the world is coming around to the climate change charade. LOL, given even OPEC now sees Greta and the student movement as the biggest threat to oil wealth and business as usual.
      And they wanting to partially divest.Exact opposite is true, the would starting to see the con game of the oil industry, and deniers such as you who hide their name. You are suitable for the Flat Earth Society, and tactics like the tobacco industry.
      Of course we can survive without some fossil fuel use, so not a complete shut down.
      Laws of nature and the climate are not subject to left or right idealogy, nor socialist or far right. But injustice and social laws do apply to fairness, whether poor people in Chile or France must pay more for transportation via taxes while the rich has no limits to emitting thousands of tons of GHGs on private jets.
      As for me, I agree, too far left or right is bad and like many things the midrange is like Goldilocks: just right.
      At present banks, investments etc are all getting the spotlight as to who is bankrolling runaway climate change via fossil fuels.
      The would is waking up to that, but little actions to change it, but some action, many large institutions are divesting of fossil fuel shares, or do you deny that to?
      74 % of Canadians favour the Feds on climate action, and want more action.
      I am still a fossil fuel sinner……..no EV yet. My cottage with a minisplit but not my main residence. I need to double down, yes. That left flank pain is what usually wakes me, so hard to double down. But no cold sweats, and never cold when using my minisplit.
      Strange that you are at odds with the oil industry that readily admit to fossil fuels emissions causing climate change. They just blame it on consumers, they provide a service.
      So hypocrites is the primary problem. That is a human condition not easily solved, but easily seen. Indeed, a Chinese Hoax! LOL.
      Deniers are losing battles but not yet losing the war. Indeed , they likely will win the war,but lose civilization.
      Locally we now have Roger Grimes as a fossil fuel cheerleader, added to Young Alfie and Andy. The three stooges as to climate science. Who's om first base?
      Roger says 90% of Nflders support the oil/gas industry, bu over 50 % of comments on the CBC piece were against Roger's stance.
      Heck, even I support the oil/gas industry, for urgent needs. 80 % is not urgent, and can be displaced, with a Green robust economy. We do or die, energy must change color from black to green, and quickly. Even children know it. We must phase down off shore drilling, just common sense, as it is scientific sense too, unless a hypocrite and two faced.
      So I am by a fossil fuel sinner too, who sees the Light, and wants to make it a bit brighter, with Greener energy.
      Do I divest of Fortis and others that are major polluters? Hard being a socialist in capitalist markets, But China plays that game effectively.
      Winston Adams
      Winston Adams.

    • Just read Hollet's piece, and rather disappointed. I think Hollet is generally a fine writer and often good analysis, but not with this.
      I saw Grimes on NTV, a softer climate change denier, where as CBS, just from the quotes shows a different Grimes, despite the opinion of the CBC writer.
      Hollet cannot make a silk purse out of Grimes's sow's ear comments or his true intent, no more than Ed Martin or Gilbert Bennett or Danny Williams can make MFs look good.
      Here is where Hollett and Grimes fail:
      1. That Grimes and the oil industry is suggesting a "balanced approach, oil development and the environment"
      Peer reviewed science says 80% of existing known reserves must stay in the ground to balance natures laws. Natures laws are long being thrown out of balance, and many ways there are tipping points where human interventions cannot reverse them. That is the true science, not junk science.
      To bring nature back to balance requires a rapid roll back of emissions and reduced fuels burning. Increasing production does not result in rebalancing, but less climate stability.
      2. Grimes suggests conversation. This is a cop out, given the need to balance nature's laws required ramping down production , not ramping up and more emissions. Grimes and Hollet defies logic.
      3. Clyde Wells I think went to the 1991 claimte change conference in Rio? Hollett was an assistant to Well's in his government? Almost 30 years of "talks" about climate change and still no real action to reign it in. Now Grimes suggests 20 more years of talks? This is just delay, delay delay.
      3. Hollett suggests citizens should ignore what is happening world wide, and stick together locally, as if climate change is just a local occurance……..each do their own thing……this a path to failure for meaningful reduction of emissions worldwide. We inhabit one planet, we are earth citizens first. We may have Planet NL on this blog, but no planet B.
      4. I expect WW3 will be climate change deniers of oil interests and the elite, big and small who think they are exempt from the laws of nature vs the poor who will suffer first and most. Today in California, those in Holywood mansion runs from the fires…… the rich can hide more so than the poor, but not escape mother nature.
      So add Hollett to the 3 studges: Alfie, Andy, Grimes, and Hollett, and no doubt many more to come. None with an understanding of climate science, but mere politicians,or aids to politicians, or oil interests.
      In summary, as Greta says talk is not action. Show us the action.
      When digging yourself into a hole, first stop digging. Especially if your nickname is DIGGER.
      Mostly old grey hair men in charge and misleading the public.
      Hollet nor Grimes counters a single science fact? So what is there to discuss? Not a single solution offered. That they are more efficient at extraction? A silly statement in context of the the size of the problem.
      5. Hollett repeats himself a lot , so weak is his argument.

    • HOLLET, and Sruff:
      In all his writings on MFs, and alternatives, Did Hollett ever say much if anything on CDM? Of NS Energy Efficiency program, on Effciciency Corp independent of the power companies? Or EV benefits to increase loads and decrease GHSs? Or on reducing peak load in winter? Of deceitful conservation and interactive effect? He is a policy guy, right?

      The issue of Joey not demanding a corridor through Quebec to permit exports to the USA in the 1960s:
      This engineer from Quebec on his proposal to the PUB cites these technical factors;
      Quebec has its own grid, not synchronized with Ont or USA, and due to remote generation was considered technical unstable to connect, and a financial risk factor in the 60s. DC was not mature technology to ship power long distance then. So a corridor would have not helped if not technical feasible to ship long distance to the USA
      Even now Quebec has it's own grid, not AC synchronized, but DC links now make connections possible. Even now, as we see with our DC line, we have serious technical problems waiting to be solved.
      Nfld island, like Quebec, still has its own AC grid not AC synchronized with either Quebec nor NS, but linked with DC terminals which permit a connection. Texas is similar. Most other jurisdictions have vast AC synchronized tie ins that add to their stability.
      Also for CFs to proceed as is with very high voltage, 730 kv AC, the finance risk was overcome by not only HQ expertise but also the most competent hydro engineers in the USA: Bectel. As a student engineer at CFs I worked with Acres Canadian Bectel, under a civil engineer from California.
      Compare all that to Nalcor's in-house non experts in hydro and HVDC (but describes as world class experts) and understand why we got a boondoggle. Such technical aspects has been ignored, I think, as to why Quebec took all the risk and an apparent one sided deal from Nfld point of view. With the mess of Muskrat, and the increasing value of CFs, and a fuller historical view, should temper the folly of so much blaming Quebec.
      Even on the North Spur we see the Quebec perspective of building(mostly avoiding building) on quick clay. Several years ago I suggested a fix may be to fill in all the way back including the deep hole below the MFs. This engineer makes a similar suggestion to reduce the risk of failure.
      Has this report been dismissed because it questions Nalcor's, (Stan's) assurance that the N Spur is safe? This engineer says it is not, so wound never invest in the MFs plant.Can PENG2 comment, or not permitted?

    • Hollett also says Allnewfoundlandandlabrador.com interviewed Grimes and he explained his comments. That's thenew outfit that Ashley Fitzpatrick , ex Telegram MFs reporter now works for. Did she Interview Grimes? Are they a reliable source free of bias?
      Interesting that most all the USA coastal states refuse to permit drilling off shore, even under Trump, as to risky, apart from GHG issues. Here, we are as little concerned as to risk to fisheries or anything else, and same attitude to quick clay, to salmon farming, or raw sewage dumped into the ocean. To be a Nflder is to pollute and avoid regulations. Bryne on TV tonite saying th epolicy for salmon die off was not to disclose.
      However seems the winds they are a changin. Ed Hollett advertised his services as a communicator. Needs to sharpen his tenhnique to put the shine back on Roger Grimes.
      Beware of grown men attacking the character of children, especially of the intellect of Thunberg. Seems abusive even under the UN charter. Oh my Roger, shame on you, into the gutter with the others. Repent, Repent! LOLs

    • There is a tidal wave of climate change propaganda that is drowning out common sense and stifling good science. Climate change is real, just as the last ice age was real. However, human activities are insignificant in the scheme of things. There is no emergency, and the focus on CO2 is disingenuous. Global temperatures are primarily driven by solar output.

      Climate action is now like religion. You challenge it and you are labeled – climate heretic, a denier, a conspiracy theorist, or just a barrage of pejoratives. Humans are a lot like sheep and like to follow the herd, no matter where it is headed.

      We should be focused on whether we want our society to be here 1000 years from now and adapt our way of living so that we can exist comfortably on this planet indefinitely. Sustainability is a real challenge, which if not solved, dooms us to a miserable existence.

      There is a good reason why those who challenge the status quo are anonymous — we are standing in the middle of a propaganda infused herd and aren't currently in a position to afford to get trampled like Copernicus.

      Look at the list of Canadians at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_who_disagree_with_the_scientific_consensus_on_global_warming and look at the backgrounds.

    • Anon, you didn't question a single scientific fact. That solar temperatures are primarily due to solar output, does not exclude that increasing temperatures are now vastly influenced by CO2 increases. You try to mislead with a general statement.
      How many who disagree are climate scientists with peer reviewed published research? that is 2 % vs 98 % who say fossil fuel burning is the danger.
      You are no Copernicus, anon. likely a fossil fuel advocate, putting out propaganda.
      You say sustainability is a real challenge……indeed it is, and what rapid climate change will destroy.
      Recall oil from whales was not sustainable. Most earth processes have limits, and for CO2 we may have already passed them at 415 ppm.

    • Winston,

      You have some time on your hands, so try reading this https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm . It shows an ongoing discussion of many the dynamics of temperature and CO2 including feedback loops. Look at the questioning and the complexity of the matter. Can you see that climate emergency isn't settled fact at all and that accurate climate projections are likely fantasy?

      There are few places now to even discuss climate change that haven't been politicized. I'd get just as much flac for questioning global warming as I would the controlled demolition of WT7 (the one that wasn't hit by a plane and fell into its own foot print).

      For anyone that wants to read an alternative viewpoint, get Human Caused Global Warming from the bookstore. Dr Ball also published The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science.

      Good science doesn't need to attack. "Deniers" question existing theories and propose better ones and get attacked. Alarmists insist that the science question is settled. Climate emergency isn't science, it is politics and propaganda.

    • Anyone interested in good science should not expect a deep dive from the media.
      A deep dive is in the published peer reviewed studied that are published. These are not for the faint hearted and not light reading. For those less serious about the details, abstracts which are summaries are always available and gives the conclusions.
      Scientific American was a good source that covered many subjects, including but limited to climate science. Even that could be be bib deep. Dicover Magazine was more general and covered many topics.
      I sometimes dive deep, especailly as to ocean research around Nfld, fisheires, Labrador current, icebergs, etc.
      Some media that take climate change serious have general articles , but often links to the deep science studies.
      If you have not seen good science you must be wilfully blind or lack basic skills to find the good science. Young Alfie, Andy, and others seems to prefer the political science and science of those with conflict of interest. To sow doubt was well practiced by the tobacco industry that cigarettes don't cause cancer.
      Deniers use this technique of sowing doubt. Can't find one of 12,000 hard science studies, right on, anon.

      Try this one Anon, published today Google " New elevation data triple estimate of global vulnerability to sea level rise and coastal flooding" This published by Nature Publications
      A newer technique gives much better accuracy suggesting those at risk is 3 times higher than previous estimated.
      Recall too that those at risk from failure of a MFs dam is from engineering study and elevations downstream where people live and deaths expected.
      One media, The Guardian has picked up on this study and also links it. Their headline "Rising sea levels pose threat to homes of 300m people-study". They show a photo as to conditions already in Bangladish of houses being lost, and many of the 300m are in Asia, and don't have the rugged higher elevations we have here, but crowded on flood plains.
      This new research show a 3 fold worse estimate than prior ones using inferior technology to study this.
      Note the 36 page peer review questions and suggestions, much was incorporated to improve the manuscript. these reviews just did not rubber stamp like Nalcor's consultant studies to edit.
      Such studies come weekly in many fields. The details are deep, but that is what you want right?
      Tell us what you think. Many nations will be building walls to keep out refugees as this comes about, so better to prevent it , no?
      Winston Adams

    • Interesting that climate change deniers who say they can find no good climate change reports, when I give them one, they are silent.There are more than 12,000 more out there, but if you can't read one, doubt if you want more. If you do, let me know. I see many, and most often read the summaries, sometime the details.

    • TM28 October 2019 at 15:14 Grimes and Hollett are both full of bull crap. Not a word from either on just how they plan to develop oil as a way to control climate. 415 ppm and climbing and these jokers want to develop there way to saving the climate.

      The ONLY way to avert climate armageddon is to LEAVE THE CARBON IN THE GROUND. Grimes and the CNLOPB are climate criminals.

      How can we educate Hollett and the Griminal?

    • I was wondering about the other 22%. Given our dependence on oil, I am surprised it wasn't 90%. I'd also like to see a poll like this across Canada. Do provinces without oil think NL and Alberta should keep it in the ground? Will fish be next? Let the poor things live in marine sanctuaries while we all become vegetarians? All to help the world?

    • You wiped out the most productive ecosystem on the planet all by your lonesomes, remember? Iceland saved their cod complex using time and area closures and sanctuaries. Your greed will result in your forced veganism.

      Will your greed for oil carry on until NL is burning like Ca?? Longer???

    • Get a grip Bruno, a half million souls in this province could not eat all the fish on the Grand Banks that use to support 200 million people in Europe and other places world wide, nor could we catch them all. And we have no more to do with oil production on the Grand Banks that you do, Big Oil makes all those decisions, and none is landed or used on our shores, 90 percent of that gies to Humpland, and he wants to burn all the coal and oil he can get his hands on. Unless you are going to be like the Albertians and blame us for climate change, their problem with pipelines, and production of oil in the oil sands. As an after thought Bruno, are you originally an Albertian ask Joe blow.

  37. If I were an artist, I'd do a cartoon, With Grimes huddled before making his speech on oil development : Now boys, it's like this:the jig is up. This industry is destroying the planet. We got away with it since 1957 , when Teller spilled the beans to the Oil Industry Executives. The Oil industry all knows it. The average Joe knows it. School children knows it. My granddaughter knows it. Old age pensioners knows it. We denied it for decades, and been lucky, made a fortune for shareholders, and even help fund the boondoggle Muskrat Falls. We'll be damn lucky if we don't go bankrupt over that. We need more oil to bail out of that hole.

    So here's the plan: I'm chair of the board. I'll have this message: We have to acknowledge times are a changin, as Bob Dylan said.
    This Swedish Greta girl, she's making waves like we've never seen before, bigger than the one that toppled the Ocean Ranger. Saying she is a child and ignorant won't work. She no fool. She might look a bit off kilter, but remember I was a teacher. I can tell a smart cookie when I see one. And she's a smart cookie. Even Trump can't tangle with her.
    We have to say this: we need to communicate. We need to reach a balance, between development of offshore and protection of the environment. We have to send the right message, or we'll look like shit, in the eyes of the public. Communication is key. Talk is key, we can drag that out, maybe another 20 years. That will allow lots more production and good profits for this industry.
    Remember; I'm on your side. But I'll say We're open to dialogue. Works every time. Who's not open to talking. Lots of talk,but little action to cut production. Actually increase production is Ball's promise, and I'm on board. I'm on your side. But I have to have a public persona that this industry is reasonable.
    Now you guys know where I'm coming from. The public will think I'm fair, we're giving ground here, but you guy's, and gals, know the truth. Keep this under your hats. We don't want happening here what happened to Alberta and their tar sand troubles. 160,000 jobs gone out there, almost as much impact as when we lost the cod fishery. We all know that reliable science says. It says 80% of known reserves must stay in the ground. That is fact, can't refute it.
    I'm not a climate change denier, but I have a job to do for your industry. If we play our cards right, some other jurisdictions will get hammered first. We'll say our oil is sweet crude, it's cleaner. That goes over big time. Ches Crosbie,and the Tories used that effectively.
    That's it.
    I got my speaking notes, which you already seen. I didn't want you fellas booing me if I sort of give some credit to this Thunberg girl.
    I'll make my speech, and I'm pretty sure it will go over with the media. The media is key, especially CBC. And most of them knows what side their bread is buttered on, right, especially The telegram and VOCM, NTV too.? So afterwards, you guys need to be onside with me. I'm board chair. This is the new message; We will do both : Develop and protect the environment. That is what we will drill in. Keep repeating that message. What can go wrong?
    Any questions?
    Yes, Is this message propaganda?
    The medium is the message, just remember that. Didn't some famous fella once say that?

    • Greta today turned down a 52,000 cash and environmental award from Sweden and Norway. "The climate movement does not need more awards" she wrote,"What we need is for more politicians and people in power start to listen to current best available science". She said the Nordic countries are not living up to their "great reputation"on climate issues.
      See what I mean……what change has Roger Grimes, Alfie and Andy got to discredit her?
      Exactly what does it take to make a saint? Likely she would decline that honour too, and say "I can't get no satisfaction, I try and I try …….
      Now last week a very small beetle was called after her, a one discovered about 1965, and went unnamed, has no wings, no eyes, about 1mm long. Beetles got no respect until John, Paul, Ringo, and George took the name. So that honour for Greta was fitting, I think, as many small important species are being lost.
      I wonder, would Greta be welcome here? 75 % want continued off shore development.

  38. As Grimes whose CNLOPB with a mandate to regulate and PROMOTE warns discuss global changes in energy consumption, Ball has his head up his arse and like planning for MF he only looks back at consumption and refuses to consider and engage in debate about the future. As Grimes warns NL will be left in the dust!The global energy transition is happening faster than the models predicted, according to a report released today by the Rocky Mountain Institute, thanks to massive investments in the advanced-battery technology ecosystem.

    "Previous and planned investments total $150 billion through 2023, RMI calculates—the equivalent of every person in the world chipping in $20. In the first half of 2019 alone, venture-capital firms contributed $1.4 billion to energy storage technology companies.

    “These investments will push both Li-ion and new battery technologies across competitive thresholds for new applications more quickly than anticipated,” according to RMI. “This, in turn, will reduce the costs of decarbonization in key sectors and speed the global energy transition beyond the expectations of mainstream global energy models.”

    • 1.4 billion for 6 months of 2019 suggests 2.8 billion for the full year. Don't take this number to the bank , but I believe there is some 160 billion in new dirty coal investment.
      For batteries, like the mosquito said that spin into the ocean,"Every bit counts"
      I waiting to see cheap safe fusion power, added to the other 1000 points of light, good batteries being an important one. There is no one magic bullet.

  39. To think,…. on the final few days of the Rate Mitigation hearings, after all the official parties had their say, and the few presenters including Andy Wells, (who I summarized here), and reminded readers to post a comment by Oct 25 and provided the email address;
    And in respect of all the technical people in NL, engineers, technologists, companies involved in energy efficiency, economists, and pros from MUN and colleges, and many engineering consultants, and contractors big and small, and businesses that power rates effect, and too manufacturers and fish processors, and so many residents fearful of not being able to afford to heat heir home, and all the big mouth politicians, MHAs, and 600 or more towns:in all, many thousands who could comment, some technical, some on concern for the future, and especially all the complainers on this blog for 6 years……..
    Would one not expect an outpouring of suggestions, concerns and comments
    to the PUB?
    What did we get this last few days?
    Andy Wells and I, and 2 others. That's it folks, as Bugs's Bunny said as he ended his cartoon.,
    Sad, sad, sad.
    Make no wonder a small clique rule with no one caring enough to comment.
    Even Bruno was capable of repeating his Bruno batteries as a salvation, but didn't.
    Maybe all think the PUB process is corrupt and so avoid it?
    It was one thing for all to get misled on the MFs scheme, where but a few tried to prevent it. Now with this 13 billion albatross, virtually no one has a word to say how we might deal with this mess going forward.
    I'm gobsmacked at the lack of participation. The silence is deafening.
    Even some Bruno style one liners against the scallywags would be better than nothing, and make for a chuckle.
    Public concern has been a nothing burger.
    When in the future complainers call in to Paddy Daly, or Levy Payee on this blog says leave this province, we can't afford to live here, why should we pity them? Where is their concern registered at this hearing?
    As some Nflders would say "Look who he died on the cross for"? Truth will set you free, and that stuff.
    None of has the whole truth, but all of us have some truth. How much truth was sent to the PUB! The message: do as you like, can't be bothered.
    Jack up the rates, b'ys, no one gives a frig. We are a bunch of whiners.
    Batten down the hatches, Holyrood is smokin already, and water levels are low. We should have sent for Greta…..she would say to these scallywags "How dare you"? 13 billion wasted and still 500 MW of fossil fuel thermal power?
    Winston Adams

    • You are spot on Winston, and that includes yours truly. But the pub, govt. etc. Know that we are concerned enough to pay 4 to 6 grand, or more to install heat pumps in our homes, and all the installers are flat out installing. So is that not sending a message loud and clear to the pub. Maybe I should have written them to emphasize that point, and tell them to do only what reduces the winter bump, everything else is just scallowag nonsense. But they must know that. But those poor buggers that can't afford a heat pump will be hardest hit, starve in the dark. All MHAs past and present know that. Average Joe.