must be nature’s screen; one that affords people the capacity to not be weighed
down by the skewed and self-serving utterances of others.  Gord, an old University friend, had a single
word for them… which I plan to share with you.

surprisingly, the press release recently issued by former Nalcor CEO Ed Martin on
the heels of comments by Stan Marshall comes to mind.
the current CEO was attempting a little morale building — at the expense of the
truth — following the successful transmission of Upper Churchill “recall” power
across the Labrador Island Link. Understandably, he couldn’t wait for VP Gil
Bennett to get the lead out on the generation component of the Muskrat Falls

hadn’t popped the cork on the bottle of Baby Duck when Ed Martin was on the
media circuit like a green crab on a clam, claiming credit for something he
should be ashamed of. He had not come to praise Stan Marshall or even the
Nalcor workers — but to remind us that he had been right all along.

Martin, the LIL completion constituted a “milestone”. Had he said “millstone”
this commentary could have dealt with a different subject. But, alas, we are
talking about Ed Martin. He is the very same Ed who, in 2013, this Blog recommended
for an Oscar, his command of narrative fiction having outsized his skills in the
genre of the megaproject. 
Former Nalcor CEO Ed Martin
might have thought that Ed’s exceptional talent is what drove the media to
readily embrace his blarney — all of them having immediately sent it to air.
But, sadly, experience suggests that it was just another regular day in the
newsrooms of NL. Trivialities almost always impersonate hard news.
three days earlier, this Blog, using information obtained under ATIPPA, demonstrated
that there was complicity between Nalcor and the Independent Engineer (IE) on,
at least, the latter’s very first report.
odds under strain, I had thought — naively — that at least one of the
province’s scribes might give the ethical breach (possibly illegal, too) some
notice, considering the likelihood that nineteen of the IE’s other reports commanded
identical questions. But no such luck.   
old keener, Ed Martin, knew enough about reporters not to issue a statement akin
to an angina monologue requiring them to spend hours parsing its contents and
implications.  This, of course, is his
press release conformed exactly to the qualifications of the “rip and read”
school of journalistic expression; the kind that needs no editing and less
thought. It embodied perfect prose, the complex having been supplanted by the innocuous,
the self-serving and the factually wrong. For the local media, it was a gift. Left
to them was the journalistic mastery of two simple clicks: cut and paste.
without cause” Martin, the former CEO, described his mission as one intended to
extoll the vision of Muskrat’s “eastern North American access…” He said that he
wanted to build on the words of his “successor” — Stan Marshall — who had, he
said, “acknowledge[d] that Muskrat is indeed a good project over the long term.”
said that, following Ed’s press release, they could feel the earth shake. As it
turns out, it was only the St. John’s Board of Trade, a bevy of lawyers and
engineers, and a flotilla of Tory flag wavers urging the Town Crier to share
their expressions of gratitude at Martin’s great vision.
course, hubris is not exclusive to Martin. Having declared the $12.7 billion
catastrophe a “boondoggle”, Stan Marshall was able to tell his audience that
“after a few years, rates in Newfoundland will probably be cheaper than in most
of the rest of the country,” even adding that “Muskrat Falls will eventually
serve us well.”
Stan is a subscriber to the “rip and read” formula, too. Something so patently false
could only have come out of Nalcor central casting. Like his predecessor, it
seems that Stan, too, is realizing that propaganda is often far more convenient
than the truth. Years ago, a University buddy had a one-word expression which,
combined with his manner of expelling it, implied derision for those exhibiting
the behaviour of buffoons and blockheads. Gord  would name the recipient of his
disfavour, making an extreme facial contortion to accentuate a deep guttural
emphasis and a drawl on the letter “o”. Gord would evince that so and so is a “tool”!
and Stan wouldn’t like Gord.

Des Sullivan
Des Sullivan
St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada Uncle Gnarley is hosted by Des Sullivan, of St. John's. He is a businessman engaged over three decades in real estate management and development companies and in retail. He is currently a Director of Dorset Investments Limited and Donovan Holdings Limited. During his early career he served as Executive Assistant to Premier's Frank D. Moores (1975-1979) and Brian Peckford (1979-1985). He also served as a Part-Time Board Member on the Canada-Newfoundland Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board (C-NLOPB). Uncle Gnarley appears on the masthead representing serious and unambiguous positions on NL politics and public policy. Uncle Gnarley is a fiscal conservative possessing distinctly liberal values and a non-partisan persusasion. Those values and opinions underlie this writer's views on NL's politics, economy and society. Uncle Gnarley publishes Monday mornings and more often when events warrant.


Bill left public life shortly after the signing of the Atlantic Accord and became a member of the Court of Appeal until his retirement in 2003. During his time on the court he was involved in a number of successful appeals which overturned wrongful convictions, for which he was recognized by Innocence Canada. Bill had a special place in his heart for the underdog.

Churchill Falls Explainer (Coles Notes version)

If CFLCo is required to maximize its profit, then CFLCo should sell its electricity to the highest bidder(s) on the most advantageous terms available.


This is the most important set of negotiations we have engaged in since the Atlantic Accord and Hibernia. Despite being a small jurisdiction we proved to be smart and nimble enough to negotiate good deals on both. They have stood the test of time and have resulted in billions of dollars in royalties and created an industry which represents over a quarter of our economy. Will we prove to be smart and nimble enough to do the same with the Upper Churchill?


  1. Way back when west of Clarenville a natural rock face was painted with a scurrilous mural of large writ white painted words:


    now it is time to add four more, just four, ok?

    • How did the current PM re-enable MF? The Muskrat Falls boondoggle was the result of one person and one person only. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say that people like you making false statements such as in your comment are only protecting a former Premier who should be charged with corruption as a result of this fiasco and these types of VOCM open line comments also prevent meaningful political reform in this province. Why don't you NOT comment since you obviously are immune to facts and are preventing the truth from coming out. At the least there should be a provincial law stating that political incompetence should be a criminal offence.

      Your comment is kind of like blaming Sprung Greenhouse fiasco on Ottawa while letting an incompetent politician of the hook.

    • Well, as a NL security holder (that first FLG), Trudeau had to assess if an abandoned MF wreck, and a province closing in a default spin was better than getting MF completed, and getting more time for sorting out NL situation. Like finding win – win solutions with HQ, Emera and Nalcor?

      Not holding my breath tought, especially if NLers expect nothing short of Canadian taxpayers bailout – for free.

    • Agree more time but increasing the debt by 7 billion, and likely a stranded asset, unsafe due to the North Spur, so between a rock and a hard place, and interests costs here at 4 million a day and digging the hole deeper. How long to wait for possible solutions when Ball says no one is talking to find solutions.

    • I would suspect there are indeed talks for solutions.

      Obviously, Ball will never acknowledge any "negotiations" with "Evil" HQ. However, I see the Feds leading the way in such solutions, thus politically saving Ball's balls…

    • "likely a stranded asset, unsafe due to the North Spur"

      What I'm most afraid is that political face savings will suppress / subjugate any sense of proper/responsible risk management.

      With the little information currently available, I would not feel very secure living downstream.

      Somebody was talking about "destructive" testing versus non-destructive testing some time ago. Ok forget it, that's a bad sense of humor.

  2. The flick the switch seems to have lost it steam yesterday, with half the impact of July 1st.I would suggest of 1000 took part n July 1, half that took part yesterday, and most not at noon but at 1pm according to the peak demand response. Part of this may reflect our culture: a cooked Nfld dinner at luch time on Sunday has priority over flick the switch, and also weekly is too often, perhaps monthly is better.
    Meanwhile the online petition now has 6400 names, and still going.How many of those would actually protest in a march, I wonder.Few supported the Labradorians who were jailed.What is the mitigation plan….

  3. Joe, as You know, I have for now banished Heracles from commenting, and it is up to me to let him resume, If I use the word that scares him, he is gone forever, so I hold off for now. However, 1. he has not recanted on his false allegation saying I financially benefit from certain high efficiency space heating products, and 2, he says that Manitoba Hydro mini hydro boondoggles are not connected to their desire to export hydro power to the USA, that is also unprofitable. So 2 counts of fake news by Heracles. So maybe I will keep him off UG for good,we'll see what happens, as his Ox and Frog story grows stale.
    Now Etienne, has some truth, I think, as to our history and class structure that needs examination, but you are right that most of our leaders were not merchant class, but are they beholden to the merchant class as cronies, do you think?
    Eric, I still give the benefit of doubt, as to whether he wants to sow discord here,as you say, but you keep him on his toes, which I like, and in a style that has humour.
    Now, if Ed and Stan are "tools" as UG says, we need to ask , Tools for who?

    • wow Winston Blowhard joins Average Joe Blowhard… maybe you two are the same person, 'ey Waldo?
      you have "banished" somebody from commenting.. who the F do you think you are .. last time I looked this was UG's blog

    • Anon, you must realise that Heracles suggested I should be banned, and then stated that unless I refrained from using a certain word for 15 days, he will comment no further and no time in the future, that he is finished with UG, sort of an ultimatum. He must consider that his comments are of more value than mine, that I must go or he will.
      Now if if he truthful, his future on UG is completely in my hands, or my finger tips, this is only logical. If I say the word he is gone, (if he is truthful).It is less a matter that UG owns this blog, and not a matter that I or Avg Joe are Keystone cops. Heracles prides himself on his logic, and yet puts himself at my disposal if I let him stay or go, or be dishonest. And no easy matter that I refrain for 15 days, as I have compulsive traits,(that usually allows me to focus) but not actually compulsive. He tried to prevent me from my freedom of expression, as Joe says. So who wishes to be is the Keystone cop, Heracles it seems,……but of course UG may banish both of us, as is his right.
      But for now I follow Heracles wish, but by his own statement he cannot respond before 15 days, simple as that.Perhaps he can work on a new fable, different that the Ox and the Frog, if I let him back.

  4. “I still give the benefit of doubt, as to whether he wants to sow discord here…”

    Wow, Winston, if you have not figured me out yet, I guess there’s no hope.

    Also when I read you saying “…but you keep him on his toes, which I like…”, that’s sounds keeps him on the defensive, this way he won’t bring any more arguments. You seem to adopt AJ warfare tactics apparently. But I agree, it’s entertaining and also brings some interesting humour. But maybe at the expense of constructing/useful arguments and solutions building I guess.

    My interventions (and my style) have been pretty constant. I indeed intervene when I perceive some BS about Quebec, UC or HQ circulates. I also try to bring feasible solutions to NL’s current fiscal situation, and bring counterarguments to those I believe don’t make sense. I believe I use facts and constructive arguments. And still do in the following debates. And most of all, I avoid attacking the messenger, even when I disagree with the message, or when I’m just short of arguments…

    But here we go again, debating on individuals (and their perceived intentions) instead of debating on notions, arguments and possible solutions. So be it I guess.

    Ok, let’s then talk about you, Winston.

    When you finally concluded that:

    "Efficiency, assuming MF operates, will cause a transfer of costs from the ratepayer to the taxpayer…”

    You and me both knew that you understood very well the “usefulness” (for NL as a whole) on spending any pennies on whatever efficiency program. Indeed at this stage , any dollar spent in an energy program is literally money wasted – from a provincial perspective, and you know it very well!

    But I let you some face saving slacks because I knew you are a 100% energy efficiency junkie and you are constantly on a mission to convince everyone how fantastic that is. I understand that state pretty well because I’m somewhat like you. (FWIW, for a living I review federal programs for efficiency, effectiveness and economy).

    I just hope Winston you will return to your previous approach of debating…

    • Eric, I should have said `considerable benefit of doubt`, and I guess got carried away with AJ`s certainty as to your character. I have not seen what AJ sees.
      I disagree that any money spent on EE is money wasted from a provincial perspective. I mentioned 9 reasons for EE, so more than just energy savings, but a job to articulate the 9 reasons here in any detail. And also from a regional perspective and as a country to reduce climate change, it is important to reduce waste and have EE.
      I do agree that one can be too aggressive on EE, that may be counterproductive, using wrong or not prudent cost effective measures.
      I do think EE must help shift costs to the wealthy and corporations, which is needed. There is EE now with rebates and NP using EE for street lighting, so the question is not EE or not , but how much. So I am close to 100 percent EE junkie, but fall short myself, so not 100 percent., But NL second worst in Canada says a lot as to improvement needed. Glad to see you engaged in EE on a federal level, and hope you elevate our standing to meet the Paris agreement.
      Yes, we should not attack personally, but debate ideas. UG has a check for when something is funny, and AJ is often funny. Keep him on his toes, …. call out Heracles,and me too, or anyone,if is he is not fair or honest, and I have said AJ may misjudge you.
      Appreciate your input.

  5. Just for precision, the type of programs I review could be like EI, OAS, Passports, national shipbuilding program, the Phoenix pay system, new fighter program etc. (Those are examples only; I don't want to be too precised as everyone would figure out my exact workplace)

    The only EE work I ever did was a business case while in the military – a great while ago.

    • It's indeed a disaster, and I know it because I'm personally impacted by it. (FWIW, I don't want to confirm or deny that I actually reviewed this project 😉 )

      Pay errors takes an eternity to get corrected. Those corrections occurs sometime the following fiscal year, so it impacts your tax bracket big time.

      In the mean time, you have to follow closely all the details of your pay (every two weeks in our case).

      That project was run like "must have be running by the due date, without delays, and within the budget"

      First, there were much more adaptation work (and training) to be accomplished than anticapated. Yhe deadlines were cast in stone with no possibilities to keep the old system working a little longer (as a back up). Furthermore, we laid off most experienced pay specialists – as we expected Phoenix to be simpler to use. The tite project budget was also not to be exceeded, whatever the reason.

      So we ended up garbage in, garbage out, w/o any back up systems, and with most of the experienced pay specialists gone (and not interrested to come back whatever the pay/bonus).

      MF is not so bad after all…

  6. "Some said that, following Ed’s press release, they could feel the earth shake. As it turns out, it was only the St. John’s Board of Trade…"

    Isn't that the same crowd who want to bring in immigrants to replace NAPE workers?

  7. Ex Military Engr., you mentioned you would like to discuss comment content. I noticed yesterday, that of the some 22 comments posted, you were the author of eleven comments, or about half of the posted comments. I also noticed you deleted two shortly after posting. So might say you delete maybe 20 per cent of your original post. I also have noticed in the past that you commonly do that, some I have read some I have never read, but just note you have personall deleted. I have had a couple deleted by UG, which of course is his right, but I never delete them myself, and seems very few others delete their own comments. For example, the one you deleted yesterday July 9th. @ 12:52 what it said and why you deleted it? Just wondering and maybe you might like to discuss it. As my recollection, it mentioned Harper. Thanks, average Joe.

    • Curious to know, Ex Mil, what methodology you use, based on your training regimen and experience, when performing "reviews". Certified Cost Engineer? MBA? Professional Associations? Papers given? etc.

    • Hi Robert,

      I'm using a professional association code of conduct, and work standards.

      Can't really say more at this time, but as I'll be retiring within the next 24 months (well, once I believe Phoenix will be able to provide my correct pay info to the pension center…), I'll disclose then my work specifics.

      Best regards,


      Here's an interesting read on Phoenix;


      (I was not involved in the above piece)

    • I ask again, Was not the current Lieut Gov. of NL the minister and custodian of the phoenix file, ship contract, gov. procurement, etc? Will she in fact be called to account during the General Inquiry? Seamus? MPs all who in some way, supported Gov. policy, and delivered us all this pain and grief?

    • Hi Robert,

      I don't believe the Phoenix pay system was ever implemented by the NL provincial government (pls correct me if I'm wrong)

      Here, the Phoenix acquisition and implementation was the sole responsibility of Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC). It was then forced upon to most federal departments.

    • Ex-Mil, Check the Mandate Letter Ms. Foot received from M. Trudeau, upon appointment to her Ministry. Why did she shortly after decide to leave politics to be with the family? only to be appointed LG a little later?

  8. Hi AJ; just some gramatical errors (actually missing words in those instances). As you noticed, I indeed reposted the same but corrected version just a couple minutes afterward.

    To avoid any possible conspiracy theories, maybe I should keep the uncorrected version a little longer? 😉

  9. So according to UG, or at least his friend, " Gord", both Ed and Stan would qualify as "tools". I didn't have a clear definition, so I googled it, and another four letter word keeps popping up among others, but mainly " a fool". Yes, guess they lived up to that simple definition, by declaring that Edie and been right all along, when power flowed, that muskrat was a good project, and would bring us cheap power in the long run. I wouldn't attempt to give all the reasons why that is a fallacy, as all the readers here know why. But it does give you an insight into their thinking. I had mentioned on this blog before, that whenever there is a dictator there are little people popping up everywhere to serve him, to try and satisfy his enormous ego, they too normally have an ego and I did not call them tools, but guess that's what I meant. Words don't affect them, and they don't think for themselves, just want to be in the spotlight, usually in over their heads, so guess it fits Eddie to a T. As for Stan the man, I will, at this point withhold my judgement. But guess we may see when a little further down the road, and what comments he makes, and what success he has in making muskrat flow, and brining down our rates. Cheers, average Joe.

  10. Lol, Ex Military Engr. I think the one I asked specifically about had only 3 or 4 words, and contained the word Harper, surely you can remember that one, and post it again, or maybe UG. Can refresh our memory, as I am now asking him, if he can repost it. Not sure if he does that kind of thing. But I am asking him anyway, unless you want to repost it. As for spelling errors, etc. If I were to delete my post for that simple reason, I would have deleted all of mine. Thanks average Joe.

    • LOL, if it makes you feel better, I'll definitely be very happy if UG could show the uncorrected version ;-). But don't laugh when you'll see double words or missing words 🙂

      From now on, shall I wait for your authorisation before deleting an obsolete version?

      Thanks, as we having fun right now…

    • Yes, agree, it is silly…it makes no difference to me , if you or I say, "we having fun, or we are having fun, or we're having fun", the meaning does not change, and who is childish enough to even notice that, it is not an official publication, just bloggers, chatting back and forth. If that is the greatest error that you and I make, I am sure we will be forgiven, by UG and our fellow bloggers. But the deleted comment that I asked about, did it include the word, "Harper", to me, and I think to most bloggers, that is more significant than omitting "are". Cheers, average Joe.

    • I agree with Winston, your posts are definitely entertaining, and contains indirectly a good dose of humour… 😉 (and no, I did not type the word "Harper, and then deleted it)


  11. Your friend Gord would be right on target. Martin was the tool that Williams used to enable the fiasco boondoggle and Marshall is the tool the liberals, and whoever runs them these days, used to enable the continuation of it.
    The loan guarantee of course was a key tool to its sanction and the loan extension was of course a key tool to its continuation.
    So there are human tools and there are other tools, chief among them is money, the ultimate weapon.

  12. Supreme Court of Canada still holding the CF – HQ decision in "lock down" at the request of HQ and CF(L)co ………… wonder why so long ? And Dwight tells us lies all the time that no discussions taking place………where is Stan the man and why is he in Montreal so much ?

    • A recent article on ipolitics, forget the author's name, also transmitted by Vardy, suggests that nothing will be revealed at this time. Too sensitive to politicians seeking re-election over next year or two; Kinney, Notley, Trudeau, (including Seamus), Ball, etc. We all now realize that the politicos control the media. Power propagation is at the centre of forcing the electorate to pay all bills. That is why a populist like a Trudeau, Ford, Trump, (who now controls the Supreme Court for Christ's sake), have taken Democracy to the cleaners. Remember; "drain the swamp".

      Ask yourself, who will be deemed expendable going forward? When are you stepping down Stan?

  13. Now , mainly for Roberts benefit, a nler , living on the other side of the country, I will comment on Judy foots situation, both personal story and brief political, as viewed by most from here. Of course I always stand to be corrected by those who know more than I do, or if I error. Foot spent more than 20 years in nl and federal politics, and became trudeaus right hand person in his new government, and the minister of the largest and most complex portfolios in government, the minister of public works. As far as I know she was appointed to this position, because of her knowledge, experience, and abilities to do the job as determined by Justin, I guess. She served for almost 2 years, which included, the Phoenix scandal, left over from the Harper government. Several, federal, employees from this province, mainly DFO employees complained on open line about their pay for the past three or four years, and foot appeared on paddy a open line a couple of times about the phone nix, and was going to commit enough resources to it to fix it, so guess that is still on going. Guess the situation was similar to the boondoggle here, inherited from the previous govt., and that's the way things work, when a new govt. is elected. Guess Judy was instrumental in getting the second loan guarantee, holding such a hig office and in trudeaus good books and cabinet. Now the person side is, Judy took an extended leave of absence, due to battling cancer for the second time, I think, and later resigned from govt, when she was diagnosed with a gene that could spread cancer to her two young granddaughters living here. So a very personal story, no doubt, and everyone here accepted her move, to spend time here with her immediate family, for health reasons. Meanwhile, the lt. Govt. in the province, became open, and guess ball recommended her to Trudeau to appoint her as the first female, lt. Govt in the province. This seemed to go over well with most in the province under the circumstances. Hope I haven't gone too far off track, otherwise others will correct me. So there you have it Robert. Thanks, average Joe.

  14. Will also comment on Exmillitary Engr. Confirmation that he did not write harpers name and then delete, and related comments. Must admit that I briefly viewed several comments by him, at a distance, without really reading either one, and when I came back to read them, one was deleted and in my first quick view, I thought I say harpers name, but guess I was mistaken. So will leave that at that. But in a meantime, just for the record, I will comment on his comments of July 9th, at 11:47, and 11:50, where he acknowledges, that the previous PM, "the one that orgionally enabled the whole boondoggle", so doubt was referring to Harper and the first loan guarantee. When he also said, "a previous PM comes to mind". When commenting on painting different famous names. So just wanted to say that Ex military Engr. Agrees with us that Harper was an "enabler" of the muskrat boondoggle. And am sure he will accept his words and meaning that he wrote on this blog on July 9th. Cheers, average Joe.

    • I indeed used the word "enabled" as this was the compromise we agreed upon here a while ago (there was a pretty intense debate then).

      And I'll keep using this word too – but I haven't change my personal position on the subject 😉

    • Yes, I agree with the word too, a very descriptive word, and most appropriate in this circumstance. As you know, it's simplest defininition, " enabler…. A person or thing that makes something possible". So without the loan guarantee muskrat would not have been possible, or 8$ billion plus spent. Now, I know there are those who say, that muskrat was going to go ahead come hell or high water, by Dannie, but that was just talk, as the only thing that really talks is the money behind it. And we all know, we had put into it at our provincial level of 3 billion or so, but not a chance in hell of raising the other 8 or 10 billion in the money markets. So, Harper, and Mccay, were the only ones with power in Ottawa at the time, all of our Mp's were on the other side except for the weak minister, and harpers bum boy, from Labrador. So they did it mainly for the Nova Scotia problem, of carbon effects, etc. Not for us. As Harper would keep fresh air from us, if he could, especially after ABC. So the enabler in this case is the prime mover that built muskrat, otherwise it would have been as dead as a door nail, after we had spent a couple of our own 2 billion. End of story. So, guess that is the hold up now, including the court ruling, if the Feds will take their responsibility, as the enabler, in the boondoggle. Cheers, average Joe.

    • Joe, would you not agree that NL MPs complicity over the almost invisible support for Muskrat, at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer, should be front and centre during the Inquiry? Ms. Foot has been strategically removed from scrutiny, others, (Seamus), are virtually tight lipped on the project. The cloud of secrecy speaks to exoneration of responsibility. Complacency by the local party hacks. The Emera/NALCOR deal was sold in NS by a negligent and weak NDP administration, having misplaced its trust to the corporate sector, fronted by Tory/Lib MPs. Bad stuff, with the card deck stacked against transparency.

    • Yes, agree with you Robert, there is a jack of transparency at all levels, and will probably remain that way at the political level, for the foreseeable future, at least at the federal level. As we have no one there with any weight to raise the issues. Shamus, is a light weight, like all the rest of our fed MPs. His only clout is a personal relationship with Justin, and guess that is not much and can be stamped out at the wink of an eye. Our only hope, is a moral responsibility, by the Feds to take their responsibility for the loan guarantee and the boondoggle. No one there to keep their feet to the fire. Guess ball can exert the typical power that a small province might have at the federal level, which is usually not much. As for NS/ Emera, regardless of their provincial govt. at the present time, they come out smelling like roses. But at the local level, with the Leblanc inquiry and an election nearing, we as the people have to keep their feet to the fire, and make this the most important election in a long time in this province, to make their plans and confront Ottawa, of their responsibilities for the boondoggle. Cheers, average Joe.

    • "because of the Quebec blockade on pipelines and transmission lines"

      This is BS and you know it. (Or wait, maybe you meant BC?)

      Quebec's conditions to "politically" support this pipeline were basically identical to Ontario's ones. And whatever those conditions, even Quebec's premier Couillard admitted he anyways did not possess the powers to actually oppose anything.

      This pipeline business case just did not worked out. It had a much longer route and it crossed many more rivers – including one that provided the drinking water of millions (anyone heard of Montreal?). And guess what, the Montreal mayor was indeed the most vocal opponent, but could not do zip. (he was not re-elected by way)

      Still, I found Quebec's opposition quite mild when you consider the Lac Megantic human and environmental disaster. Quebec and local authorities were complaining for years about the risks of carrying this crude on those decayed rails. (The situation was even worst as Irving lied about the flammability of particular crude). Guess what, the Feds did nothing.

      Quebec had no say on it and we're now basically alone to pay for this human and environmental mess. Transport Canada failed to properly ensure the carrier had sufficient liability insurance. Plus we now discover Transport Canada accountability framework is faulty as nobody is responsible for anything.

      About the transmission lines, this has been discussed ad nauseam. Maybe you could read previous discussion, or read an article written by Bernard Lahey on UG.

      By circulating fake news like this, you are increasing the risks of political knee jerk reactions – like the one that brought us MF.

  15. BS indeed, where do you people get the nonsense. PQ stood in the way of the energy east pipeline. It's a fact. Trump wins just like when Bombardier gave away the shop to get a contract in the USA for the c series jets. Give us a break.

    • About Bombardier, its shares closed at $5.43 today. I doing close to 250% gain as of now (Winston also owns BBD shares).

      Above share prices are a direct result of this new Airbus/BBD partnership (that you labeled as "Gave away the shop").

      That partnership also "enabled" a new 60 CSeries sale (+60 options) to JetBlue airline yesterday, less than 2 weeks after the partnership creation

    • Figured I check my status on Bombardier stock; was 2.oo last Sept, about 3.75 6 weeks ago,last time I checked, today 5.43 a share. Market cap 11.8 billion, so about 5 billion last Sept.
      Gave away the shop! If only Stan Marshall said to put Muskrat on ice, invest the other 7 billion in Bombardier stock, the gain could have paid off the Feds, paid the original 6 billion loss on MF and a billion or 2 left over.

    • Rather remarkable, Eric, our timing. I am at our cottage, 60 miles form St John`s, just back from a walk,and catching up on UG when I saw anon remark about `you people`and Bombardier. We have a few, but a few too many, who think like that.

    • Anon, google : Fuel economy in aircraft, see short haul flights for 1000 mile range, mpg per seat
      Boeing 121 miles
      Airbus 122 miles
      Bombardier 127 miles
      So, best in the world, world class one might say!
      Efficiency in design is important, whether heating houses or for transportation.

    • Climate change is the real elephant in the room, and EE is one important way that helps mitigate the waste of fossil fuel.Climate change is not even on the radar in Nfld,wanting to double oil production, no effort to reduce diesel electricity generation in many coastal towns etc, and ocean temperature changes causing havoc with fish environment. Ball wants to give the carbon tax back to the oil industry instead of relief to consumers, or reduce GHG.
      So yes, I was aware of Bombardier research and design for efficiency, and the cost that was a risk when competing against Airbus and Boeing, but , hey, Canadian company with a track record of technical success. Companies cannot stand still, but must invest in research for improvements that drives success. Boeing tried to squeeze them out.

  16. Anonymous: Considering that in Saskatchewan some 60 000 people were without drinking water for two months as a result of…why, yes, you guessed it, an oil spill (compliments to Husky Energy) in 2016 (Its longer-term effects on the inhabitants and environment of Northern Saskatchewan are yet to be determined, apparently), Brad Long's defense of Energy East struck me as a piece of surreal obscenity. I agree with Ex-Military Engr, Quebec was VERY moderate in its opposition (Which, in substance, indeed was identical to Ontario's, yet Ontario has not attracted anything like the amount of rabid hysterical attacks directed against Quebec. Gosh, I wonder why…)

    It is very striking, too, to see how Pavlov's dog-like journalism in English Canada is: For instance, whereas the "conservative" business press regularly used to denounce the present-day government's deficit spending, such criticism has become well-nigh non-existent ever since the feds decided to purchase the Keystone pipeline project (Something which will cost more to the taxpayer than all of the loans given to Bombardier ever did, incidentally): plainly, fiscal recklessness is very bad…well, except when certain groups benefit from said recklessness.

    I was about to recommend that learning French may be the only way for you and others to figure out what is going on in your country, but, happily, the occasional oasis of sanity can still be found in English Canada:


    • Good article by James mccloud, but nothing new there, that we haven't known for months, if not years. So, yes a good idea for the rest of Canada to know and not kept it a secret as they did with SK a few years ago. And a good time to tell about the story of the Feds role as the "enabler" in building the boondoggle, through the loan guarantees. But no one is telling that story, so about time that guys like mccloud tell that story too, if the National Post wants to publish that as well. So is Ottawa trying to keep the lid on this, and promising in secrecy, "that we will keep you whole". We need that in writing, and in terms of taking over the loan guarantees, and not just empty promises, as should the federal govt. change in the next election, we might be up shits creek without a paddle. So that is why we need that discussion here now in this province before our election, so that we know where the parties here stand, and their plans, before the election and not after. Get your plans ball et al. Chess and his best, and get that all in writing before the election, and not after. The picture from St. Louis, on the Labrador is quite telling, all the fishing boats tied up, rather than out fishing, as this scene is quite noticeable all around the province. Ottawa has controlled the fishery for the past 70 years, and had managed to destroy it by their mismanagement, to the point now, where a fishing crew are lucky if they can fish for 2 months a year now, rather than all year round, or at least several months per year as was the norm. Ottawa is saying you now have oil, you don't need fish now, and have been doing that for at least the last decades, by reducing our quotas and giving larger quotas to to others provinces, and nations. So yes, there are many stories to be told. Who will get to the bottom of it all and tell the Canadian people the whole story. Cheers, average Joe.

    • Good Stuff Joe. Rather than thinking that the two corrupt parties be the best way to re-invigorate the masses, why not think 1948. The National Convention of the day, which brought about the Referendum, was a proven and effective way to bring about "the narrowest of consensus". As I experienced and understood it, regional representatives were selected, without Party mentality and constraints, to debate the issues. History repeats. Real people in the coves, bays, work camps, etc. need to approach the coming elections, without regard to the Party apparatus and mentality, and build a better form of governance. The Citizen's Coalition should be doing the Strategic organization for such an initiative. Think strategically, instead of like Party "seals".

    • Average Joe Blowhard (aka Waldo), did you actually read the article, or were there too few pictures
      without MF:
      $1 billion/year on servicing debt, more than education..
      govt so bloated it needs to cut spending 21% or raise taxes 26% to be sustainable.. more money per patient in Canada, yet worse health.. Gus Etchegary and FPI pals raped northern cod stocks, decks swimming in spawn.. how can you blame on FG? all provincial fuckups..
      let's tell the whole story
      NL complains and complains about being hard done by, but blows the budget, embarks on a crazy project it never needed, and never ever takes responsibility for its own messes..
      now you and that zombie Ball want uncle Ottawa to pay for it all.. what will you give up for that support? can you finally grow a pair

    • Well Waldo Boy, ex military, you try and change your spots every time you write, but being like the leopard you are, your are unable to do that, so you just switch you name. Of course I read the entire article, and as I said nothing new there that we didn't already know. As for Gus, who I think is 92, is still quite capable of defending himself, and knows more about the fishery, that all the bercurats in Ottawa put together. And if they took his advice, then the fishery would not have been destroyed. Plus Gus and everyone else operated under the Feds regulations, rules, and enforcement policies. I could tell you more about the fishery, than you are able to comphrend, but your response is the typical Ottawa response, so will just ignor your silly comments. One minute you are the great "enabler", when it suits your purpose to butter up other bloggers on UG, and the next to masquerade as the Ottawa bureocrate you really are. You grow a pair and stand up like a man, and not a ball less coward. Cheers, average Joe.

    • The fishermen blame the feds, but they have take some responsibility too. Growing up, there was a fish near me. Now this plant could only process one specie at a time. In June it was caplin, yet fishermen came to the wharf with cod, knowing bloody well the plant couldn't take it. They wouldn't give away any, wouldn't even sell it to you; instead, dump it over. I remember seeing nothing but white on the ocean floor surrounding the wharf; all cod!
      Now I read the whole article, and in this community there are 194 people there and the article stated they need they're own health care clinic, and there's the problem! All of these small isolated communities can't have or should not expect to have the same services as a larger center. It's been stated many times on Open Line; we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem! We're spending too much money to service too few people! Nobody wants to say it and nobody wants to hear, but these small ISOLATED communities have to move! We have to centralize people so we can better manage our finances and resources. But, whose going to take the first step? Nobody in government has the guts to do what has to be done and there's nobody to elect to do it either. The average Joe might have the willingness to do it, but not the financial backing to get elected.

    • Jeeze Waldo (aka Joe Blowhard), how many times do I have to tell you, I live in St. John's.. I am not your ex-military man or Eric, or any of those other voices that you hear in your head.. you cannot answer my questions and always go off on some weird tangent about leopards, or lions, or masks, or masquerades
      Keep your attention span focused now, I know it's hard for you but, let's try:
      what are you prepared to give up for a FG bailout?
      what are you prepared to give up for an Emera/NS bailout?

    • AJ, I wish I had above anon English writing skills, speed and (apparent) wide & in debt NL knowledge, but I don't.

      As I mentioned you earlier, you could ask Des Sullivan for more relevant information so you feel more secure – via this anon IP geographic location by example.

      Until that time, I would ask you refrain from associating me to posts that I DID NOT WRITE.


      As you brought me into this discussion AJ, I’ll then provide you my take on it.

      I must admit above anon comments are way more entertaining than yours (and mine too I must admit). And by judging your (apparent) poor answers, this anon shots “seem” to be pretty accurate. I say “seem” and “apparent” because I don’t have sufficient knowledge on fisheries and some other points to properly assess.

      As you don’t seem to like the message, then like usual, you somewhat shift your focus on the messenger, and on by-standers like me. Oh well. (He also seems to have adopted your writing style – which often borders disrespect. So I guess you should be pretty comfortable dealing with this anon).

      Sans rancune j’espère,

      Ex-Military Engr

    • Lol, you blew your cover about living in St. John's months ago, by telling us, all the lawyers hung out on Harvey road. I'll let you in on another tide bit about St. John's , all the bars are on Harvey road too, and not George street, so you won't get it wrong when you look that up online. What a great nl patriot you are, so as a patriot, what are you willing to give up for a FG bailout. You must have the answer, since you asked the question. As for IP addresses, living in your Ottawa stow-away, you have more ip addresses than one could count, as you say, i am now using this computer, and now using another, and then another one as I race from here to there and somewhere else. But for now I have made my case, and will let others on the blog judge who you are, including UG. Thanks, average Joe.

    • Waldo
      you truly are a fool, my IP address is in St. John's and I can't fake it, change it's spots (as you would say), to make it look like it's in Ottawa.. BTW caplin's in Middle Cove
      as to what I am willing to give up is a moot point (that's Harvey Road lawyer talk for ya), I just know that we will be in the poor house for a long long time because of that little Quebec pawn, Danial.. unlike you though, I don't expect a free ride and I accept that it is all our own stupid fault.. time to stop blaming others for your screw-ups, look in the freaking mirror

    • Joe, while you sort out who is the real Eric, what about Heracles, He or his anom supporter says :No one is so deaf who refuses to hear the wisdom of others,( which comment was aimed at me).
      Now I recall saying, I think, I am in agreement with at least 90 percent of Dave Vardy, Des Sullivan,and also similar with Jim Gordon and M Adams and Cabot Martin on the North Spur risk, and 60 percent with Bruno and Heracles and about 75 percent generally with PENG2,(and 90 percent or more on his technical opinions), and I agree more than 75 percent with Bernard, and Eric. So if these have words of wisdom,I hear it.
      Heracles at 60 percent is on the low side.
      Now Heracles tells fables which is fake news by definition, but with a moral intended, so ok. Such fables like the Ox and the Frog goes back to 600 BC. Heracles, likely a fable also, as to heroics, going back to 1300 BC, so maybe our Quebec Heracles thinks himself a philosopher, one of great wisdom, that others on this blog fail to understand.
      Now Socrates said that a wise person must first admit his own ignorance, before he acquires knowledge. Heracles makes no such admission. So what great wisdom has Heracles sent our way that I and others fail to understand, I ask you Joe. I do not see much, and nothing to improve my 60 percent rating , which is, I guess,just a C rating.
      Maybe Heracles, (if he comes, or is allowed back), or someone on this blog could itemise his teachings, like the sayings of Mao. Now Heracles even distorts my arguments,and make false statements to try to discredit others and prop up his own version of what is logic.
      Perhaps Heracles could write a piece for UG, with all his wisdom in one piece. If so the title would likely be THE OX AND THE FROG (HQ and NALCOR), but nothing new there.

    • Winston: Err, The story of THE OX AND THE FROG is almost certainly known to Heracles as a poem of the seventeenth century French writer Jean de La Fontaine (La Grenouille qui se veut faire aussi grosse que le boeuf).

      Now, many of these poems are regularly taught to high schoolers (I can still recite "Le corbeau et le renard"), so that Heracles (or indeed any educated francophone) quoting such a poem is most definitely NOT indicative of being an aspiring philosopher and/or deep thinker.

      Thus, may I gently suggest you save the amateurish psychobabble for commentators whose basic cultural background + script you actually know something about?

    • Sorry Etienne, if I confuse you and Heracles, and perhaps you are the wiser. Now I rate you too as a C, meaning I think you add value, but wait more of your insights as to our cultural script. I have long stated we need a cultural change and you seem to agree. You note the class issue and our long island historical domination by the St John`s merchants.
      Now Bruno often used the word technobabble when he got bogged down and lacked understanding on technical issues, and you see my speculation of Heracles as psychobabble. Is Heracles a French name may I ask, or just a handle , as they say.
      Perhaps you aspire to be a philosopher and or a deep thinker, and give us more of your insight. You did catch a local journalist here in error, as did I, on his assessment of early late 1600s history here between the English and French.
      So I agree with some of your views.
      Now I missed commenting about Robert Holmes, who views I much value. He too is much into being Green, but like Kermit the Frog, it is hard being green. For being Green, the planet needs more frogs and fewer ox and cattle we are told. So frogs are not so bad.
      Etienne, did you not predict that Nfld will be totally depopulated, or maybe someone else said that……
      And Heracles suggested we swap CF for MFs debt.
      Lucky I rate you both a C, with those statements, but if we hear more from you, your grade might improve. Just my opinion.
      Now I suggest I am the best advocate here for Quebec, as Eric knows, I even buy into Quebec companies. Does this not suggest I know at least a little about French culture……
      Should you write a piece for UG, I wonder……
      But will you admonish Heracles for his false allegation made against me…..

    • Hi Winston,

      Despite the 15 days are not over, you already made enough effort to convince me you are interested to have me back in the community. For that, I offer you this post divided in 3 sections:

      1-My own limitations
      Let me first quote few of my own comments :

      21 March 2018 at 23:48
      If you would rather loose your sovereignty, it may be possible but I am not the right one to talk about this kind of solution.

      22 March 2018 at 14:28
      Sorry Maurice; my bad! Indeed, I got confused between the name of your site and the name they gave themselves as a group.

      23 March 2018 at 16:51
      Do you think there are facts that I forgot about that would change that ?

      So 2 days soon after I joined was enough for 3 quotes in which I clearly identified my limitations / errors / questioned the base of facts I was working with.

      Should you wish to see more without doing the search yourself, just tell me how many more you need to be convinced that I am aware of my limitations.

      As for my statement that you were selling / installing these pumps, Ex-mil got it right when he replied to you : without a bailout, these pumps (or any efficiency program) are so clearly against Newfoundland's interest that your only motivation must be personal interest. Also, I was not the one recommending you be ban from UG. If that is the point you wish to talk, I suggest we start working on Problem A described below.

      2-A methodology for us to collaborate on problem solving

      First step is to list all the important facts about the problem to be solved. The hard thing here is to be sure the list contains only actual facts and not feelings or opinions. It is also important to refrain talking about solutions at this step. There can be no disagreement at this step because it is 100% factual. To fail at this step would prove it is impossible to work together on the case.

      Second step is to analyse the facts and construct a picture from them. The process can spot details for which facts would be important but were missed in the first step. We just need to fill the gap and keep going. Despite it is 100% based on hard and agreed facts, divergence may happen here but usually, this step should be able to build a solid common ground and only small divergences should occur.

      Last step is to start reviewing the big picture and think of solutions that would help in this situation. This last step is the one with the highest probability of divergence and actually, it is the very goal to have different ideas and opinions here to help ensure the solution will be optimal. The detailed picture produced at step 2 allows to select or exclude solutions that would not fit it.

      3-How would you like to start

      From the activity on this blog, I suggest you two different problems that we can talk about using this methodology. Also, up to you to decide if you would rather be the first to list facts about them or would prefer I start the list.

      Problem A : Leadership in Newfoundland

      With its history of decisions that turned against its own interest, many here doubt the Leadership that is ( is not ) present in Newfoundland.

      Problem B : Dealing with Muskrat Falls

      MF being the latest and probably biggest of these decisions, it offers a detailed and specific case to review.

      Should you wish to work on a different problem, by all means propose it.

      Let see if you we can achieve something…

    • Apres moi, c'est la deluge, that's the dam busters raison d'ete, isn't it. Ex mil should know all about that. Let's hope that the North Spur holds, by all accounts it will not need any man-made bombs to fail???

  17. It was great to read the James McLeod piece in the National Post about the dire future of this province thanks to past governments and the current Apple Dumpling Government we now have to deal with. James, being embedded here for a few years can expose to the rest of the country how things work down here (or don't work). Paddy of VOCM said the piece irked him. Well, i tell you what irks me is having to dish out portions of hard earned wages to this pathetic govNL to keep its one nostril above water. I'm of the opinion, the sooner she goes bankrupt the better- Get it over with already.

    • Levy Payer: James McLeod's piece was interesting but frustrating at the same time. It highlights the lack of any kind of balance in journalism today.

      Thus, did you notice that in the article reference is made to "the current liberal government", which could not cut spending, but when he blamed Dan*COUGH*iams for the initial explosion in spending, he avoided naming his political party (Progressive-conservative)? And sure enough, in the Comments Section you have (along with the usual anti-Quebec garbage) various people practically screaming in print that it's all so inevitable, Newfoundland's economic woes are all the fault of the evil liberals/socialists (who, indeed, are the cause of all that is wrong on Planet Earth…).

      Perhaps I am unusually cynical, but I get the impression that the goal of the article was not to explain Newfoundland and its fiscal problems to National Post readers, but rather to give National Post readers yet another simplistic and Manichean fairy tale wherein Bad Leftists (an oxymoron to their mind, I know) yet again are the root cause of Bad Things Happening…somewhere.

      Indeed in a sense ALL National Post stories are the same: Religious-like stories involving Good right-wingers and Evil left-wingers, all as predictable as a Medieval Morality play.

      And if some inconvenient fact (for instance, that it was a Progressive Conservative government which started to spend money like a drunken sailor) does not fit the narrative of the morality play/"news story", well, what readers do not know can't hurt them, right?

    • Agree with you Etienne, not much impressed with the piece, very shallow, and the comments a boor.
      Our Rex Murphy, a wizard with words, writes for the National Post, and, while a maybe a Rhodes scholar, he seems not to know the difference between weather and climate, and like Peckford, denies man`s contribution to climate change.
      Peckford claims that the Atlantic Accord was a greater benefit to Nfld than confederation with Canada. Peckford, who once had some admirable qualities, seems to suffer from oil on the brain,a Trump fan, and also jealous of Justin Treadeau, in my opinion.
      James McLeod, who worked here for the Telegram, left for greener pastures, he said. He did no investigative journalism here as to MFs.

    • The authors' articles have become predictably cynical and negative. I think we all know by now that we have a big problem. How about we shift focus toward dialogue about how we maneuver our way to improving the situation? I know it's easy to endlessly complain and say we are doomed but nothing ever improves as a result of complaining. Fort Mac can burn down and Japan can have tidal waves but their people demonstrate a resolve about working their way through their problems with dignity and determination. Be nice to see our people in NL demonstrate a similar approach rather than endlessly complaining about the problem. Gord really lacks any creativity or problem solving skills. Wonder where he got his degree.

    • Anon 19:32
      I agree that the narrative is dark and negative and cynical. And I agree that the channel should be changed and thought should be given to a way out of the mess. The problem is that there is no real public discourse. We have a zombie government that looks to next year's election. They don't want to talk about over spending, about how the hell they will mitigate MF rates, about how badly the provincial finances are run. They want to talk about changing the coat-of-arms, about going to the theater in Toronto, about how Uncle Ottawa will step in and save their bacon. On the opposite side, you have UG, and Average Joe Blowhard, and their brethren claiming that it's Ottawa's, or Quebec's, or HydroQuebec, or Nova Scotia's, or Emera's, or maybe aliens from outer space that are responsible for at least part of our woes and therefore they have pay up. Either view, zombie government or nativist, always come round to the fact that we didn't do it, somebody else did (or allowed us to, or didn't use their fiduciary responsible to stop us). Before any meaningful discussion and planning for the future takes place, we need to admit (paraphrasing L'il Abner) that we met the enemy and he/she is us.

    • Winston: Actually, I'll go a step further than you: What Brian Peckford and Rex Murphy have in common today is that both repeat right-wing talking points and exhibit no hint of any critical or original thinking of their own.

      It might seem strange that a former NL premier and a famous Newfoundland journalist should both be so boringly unoriginal…unless, of course, you assume that Newfoundlanders' self-image is so negative that being successful (for a Newfoundland politician or a Newfoundland journalist) requires shedding anything associated with Newfoundland and replacing it with whatever is most fashionable (A set of widely-known right-wing talking points, for instance…).

      I don't want to brag -well, not too much-but the theory I presented here at Uncle Gnarley's, on Muskrat Falls as a direct consequence of Newfoundlanders' highly negative self-perception, does seem to fit the facts.

      Anonymous (23:01): "We have met the enemy and he is us" comes from Pogo, not Li'l Abner.

    • On the other hand, Danny Williams didn`t have a negative self image, being a bit Trumpie like. He became Premier, amassed a lot of land (before and after becoming Premier, some I hear as low as 300 dollars a acre) with Galway in mind. The Nfld economy had been hot, driven by offshore oil and several mega projects. Foolhardy to do do MFs then, or at all, but MF would
      keep the economy hot, but not long enough for Galway. Two things upset his plans: 1. the shale oil revolution which drove down oil and natural gas prices, and 2. the Saudi response to try and eliminate the USA shale producers, by driving oil lower to 30.00 a barrel. DW saw none of this as a possibility.
      Now Galway, with 5000 building lot capacity and a profit of 50,000.00 per building lot, would mean 250 million gain for DW, and double his net worth. Instead he has spent 100 million and almost no housing starts, and the economy in a slide.
      Now granted many Nflders bought into Danny`s self promotion, a mini Trump, and fake news of MFs being a great project largely went unquestioned, especially by the media and business elites,eager for the short term benefits.
      Maybe MF will hurt DW most of all, but the masses are held to ransom on this take or pay. At the very least, DW needs a good shit knockin, hey b`y.
      Danny Millions expected to be richer by another 250 million, as I see it. So we`ll see what happens.

  18. Omg, what tangled webs we weave, when we weave to deceive. Gord may have been right, there are tools everywhere, and Gord may not have any degrees. But when we get too big for our breaches, and begins to spew garbage from both ends, the hammer comes down…so disappointing…but that's life. Yep, as I have used this saying before, give 'me anough rope and they will hang themselves, and they can hang separately or together, they still hang…but sad. My morning coffee taughts for today. Cheers, Joe blow, average Joe. AJ.

    • you seem to have slipped to a new low of incoherence.. an amazing melange of mixed, missing and malapropic metaphors .. when you say "get too big for our breaches, and begins to spew garbage from both ends, the hammer comes down" does that mean that when your dog gets sick, you hit him with a hammer? Does that make you both feel better?